this post was submitted on 03 Oct 2023
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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by Stamets@startrek.website to c/risa@startrek.website
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Source Page. Credit is to SMBC-Comics and even more credit to @aperson@beehaw.org who noticed it was missing and found the credit in this comment. Sorry about that and thanks, you're awesome aperson <3

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[–] FfaerieOxide@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, because people are not conscious in the pattern buffer.

I could dispute that, but I won't as I don't feel that even matters to my position that my consciousness is my consciousness no matter where or how it's arranged.

Yes, but consciousness is not a pattern, it’s an activity, and that activity gets interrupted.

And then starts up again, indistinguishable from before and with every right to call itself "me".

Would you be okay with your loved one being replaced by a perfect clone that looks and acts exactly the same, identical down to the last atom, while the original remains at large elsewhere? Or would you consider that new version to be an impostor?

I would love my child if they went on an away mission and came back via transport. I would love my children if they suddenly were twins.

[–] Sordid@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I could dispute that

Yeah, well, in Strange New Worlds the doctor's daughter isn't even aware she's being put through a transporter until he tells her, so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (also, spoiler warning)

starts up again, indistinguishable from before

It is distinguishable by its history, which is known. Understanding that two things that are identical are still two different things and not the same thing seems like a very basic cognitive ability developed pretty early in childhood, and I should probably remember what the technical term for it is, I'm sure there is one. It's also universally understood and accepted that genuine things are more valuable than their replicas, even if the replicas are so good that their lack of documented history is the only thing that distinguishes them from their genuine models. (This is why genuine antiques with known provenance are far more expensive than even perfect fakes.) As such, I find it very difficult to believe you're arguing in good faith here.

with every right to call itself “me”.

Oh really? Okay, another thought experiment: Let's say someone creates a perfect clone of you. Does that clone now have rights to your property? Is it okay if he/she sleeps with your spouse?

I would love my children if they suddenly were twins.

But would you be okay with your child being taken away and replaced with a duplicate? If you're being honest, you should be. Nothing's changed from your point of view, it's the same person. Right?

[–] FfaerieOxide@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It is distinguishable by its history, which is known. Understanding that two things that are identical are still two different things and not the same thing seems like a very basic cognitive ability developed pretty early in childhood, and I should probably remember what the technical term for it is, I’m sure it has one. It’s also universally understood and accepted that genuine things are more valuable than their replicas, even if the replicas are so good that their lack of documented history is the only thing that distinguishes them from their genuine models.

If you and I each have 2006's SMASH action film Crank on DVD, we both have the film Crank. There exist more than one of those. If a person is cloned by a transporter there are two of that person, but they diverge by virtue of unique experience.

(This is why genuine antiques with known provenance are far more expensive than even perfect fakes.) As such, I find it very difficult to believe you’ve arguing in good faith here.

Well you can fuck yourself if it pleases. It's one thing to disagree with me, it's another to impugn the earnestnest with which I state my position.

Oh really? Okay, another thought experiment: Let’s say someone creates a perfect clone of you. Does that clone now have rights to your property? Is it okay if he/she sleeps with your spouse?

I can see an argument for the property, and if a clone slept with my spouse would be between the clone and my spouse.

But would you be okay with your child being taken away and replaced with a duplicate? If you’re being honest, you should be. Nothing’s changed from your point of view, it’s the same person. Right?

Irrelevant as people are not dragged away to the teleporter, Tuvix notwithstanding.

[–] Sordid@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If a person is cloned by a transporter there are two of that person

Yes, thank you! Finally! That's what I've been trying to explain this entire time!

Well you can fuck yourself if it pleases.

That's not very nice, and it makes me sad that you resort to insults rather than more sincere arguments in the face of criticism. And just when we were getting somewhere. Oh well, have a nice day.