this post was submitted on 27 Jul 2023
290 points (96.5% liked)

Asklemmy

43940 readers
640 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy πŸ”

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

The way I see it that instinct is the cause behind so much suffering and injustice in the world.

(page 2) 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Coreidan@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Doubtful. Climate change and our own ignorant stupidity will wipe us out long before we’ll ever evolve past idiocracy.

[–] nieceandtows@programming.dev 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

One thing I read in Sapiens that has stuck with me is that a natural group/tribe size is only 40 or so. Anything above that needs a common belief/god or a common enemy. God/religion served that purpose for a long while, then philosophies like communism/capitalism/marxism/liberalism/conservatism, etc. took over. Hitler/nazism is an example of a common enemy uniting people. More recently, and more relatable, you can see how lemmy itself grew exponentially because of the common enemy reddit. All this to say, tribalistic behavior can never be overcome as far as homo sapiens are concerned, because that is what defines us as a species.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] NightOwl@lemmy.one 4 points 1 year ago

Only if we were forced to and had our free will taken away.

[–] Num10ck@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] bstix@feddit.dk 3 points 1 year ago

I don't think it's an instinct, because it can absolutely be taught.

I encourage my kids to get along with everyone, but at the same time I can see how some of their peers are taught to be racists and other clique behaviours from home by parents who are just like that and don't even think about it when they pass it on.

But by default, nobody is like that from birth. Babies aren't racists or afraid of different kinds of people. The fear of others is taught.

It will take many generations to change.

[–] metawish@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

Bold to assume that it's an instinct and not a taught and learned behavior.

[–] Nobug404@geddit.social 3 points 1 year ago

Outside perspective. Only when we meet another other.

[–] Xepher@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There's a book I read a few years ago named "Tribe: On Homecoming and Belonging" that delvs into this a bit and why humans are so tribal instinctively. Would highly recommend.

https://www.amazon.com/Tribe-Homecoming-Belonging-Sebastian-Junger/dp/1455566381?ref=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=2999a0a3-f1d3-4c19-b97a-6215a1e3c695

[–] Legendsofanus@lemmy.ml 1 points 9 months ago

I just finished this one today! Introduced me to a lot of new ideas and contexts. Good read

[–] style99@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

The way I see it that instinct is the cause behind so much suffering and injustice in the world.

That's just what they want you to think.

[–] Hextic@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago
[–] MaShinKotoKai@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

The news feeding propaganda over and over isn't helping.

[–] Telorand@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This current version of humans? No. But could it ever happen? Absolutely, if we assume our future evolutionary human descendants survive and provided we can supply everyone's needs.

[–] A_A@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yes ...and the name will have to change from Homo sapiens to something else.

[–] Ghostc1212@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 year ago

Homo Evolutis

[–] Telorand@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I've heard from other evolutionary biologists that the next gen will be homo sapiens sapiens, and we'll be renamed something else.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] donut4ever@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

It will never happen as long as there is injustice in the world. Also, there isn't a perfect world where justice is 100% served. A good book to read about that (political book, but goes through the us vs them) is "why we are polarized" by Ezra Klein.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I think we could if enough effort was put forth into making it happen. The problem is that very same "instinct," or rather the plethora of different experiences and ideals held by individuals seems to make it harder if not impossible to ever come to a global united consensus on anything.

The "Us vs. Them" mentality is also called the "in-group bias", in which you tend to align with other members of a perceived group (with little to no logical reason, it can be as simple as belts vs. suspenders). Like many other fallacies or biases, it is a built-in feature of our caveman-brains that no longer benefits us. When used in propaganda, it is often paired with the "strawman fallacy" to build the perception of an enemy that is barely even human.

You can learn to recognize these biases in yourself and in others - This is called critical thinking. I recommend the podcast "You Are Not So Smart" to everyone to get more insight on this subject.

[–] MonkderZweite@feddit.ch 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I hope so. Knowledge and curiousity feed intelligence feed knowledge feed curiousity. A highly educated society with healthy education sytem and good working socioeconomy (concurency in news coverage) can theoretically get over "us vs. them". Until we someday maybe lose it as evolutionary trait.

[–] autumn@reddthat.com 1 points 1 year ago

I don't think it needs to be overcome, just applied differently. A more global "us" vs problems like global warming or poverty would be fantastic.

It's also a self preservation instinct - sometimes there's just too much going on and you gotta narrow your focus to the people around you.

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's a good question. I think it's been shown it's in our DNA to have a tribe that we associate with, and anything outside that tribe is a threat. Used to be a literal tribe, now I think it's mostly based on race. Can this be overcome with education? Unfortunately I'm really not sure.

[–] Platform27@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

No. There will always be another β€œthem”. That’s what makes humans so great, but also so destructive. We never settle, and will always look for division, even if we need to create it.

load more comments
view more: β€Ή prev next β€Ί