There's been multiple threads already, yeah.
I've thought about joining DSA a few times just to connect with new people but then I see shit like this and don't want my money paying dues to bullshit like this
Literally more damaging than doing nothing
There are at least three ML parties in the United States:
FRSO
CPUSA
PSL
just saying: your options are open and they have been growing since the year 2020.
If not, you can check Facebook and Instagram since they're good for finding orgs in your area, various leftist groups and the like.
Barring that, there are AFL-CIO unions, independent labor unions, and the IWW.
Like I said, there are options.
Just thought I'd tell you all this in case you were feeling hopeless or distraught.
I agree that the DSA is... not my first pick. I've defended them, but the "caucus system" is something I don't agree with.
(I'm apart of CPUSA but I want to say that I'm formulating this post as impartially as I can.)
I am technically still a UFCW member and have seen firsthand how useless they are. I haven't looked much into PSL but maybe they might have something nearby.
Hopeless is the word. I'm feeling very despondent lately and if not for places like this community I'd feel like my perceptions of the world are completely insane and I'd probably have given up by now.
I really have just come to expect nothing good to happen in my life and any efforts I make to improve it will be so counterproductive it's better to do nothing
unions are part of the superstructure and as such class struggle can (and has to) only be struggled within them in proportion to the level of class struggle flowing around and through them. definitely get into local organizing every field needs work and organizer development!
Unions are not apart of the state, if that's what you're trying to say.
They're only as good as they're membership and it may depend on the type of union.
I really have just come to expect nothing good to happen in my life and any efforts I make to improve it will be so counterproductive it's better to do nothing
if nothing good is gonna happen in your own life then you can at least do some good for others by dedicating yourself to serving the people. doesn't need to be under the auspices of a particular organisation, just go engage with the masses somehow in a positive way and keep reading revolutionary thinkers and try to apply what they say to what you see in front of you. nihilism and defeatism isn't good enough comrade, people are out there being massacred by our ruling classes and they don't get the option to embrace nihilism.
CPUSA
dogshit supporters of the demoncrats since the mid 20th century, also feds
PSL
tailist sect who like to try and co-opt movements without doing the political work necessary to actually lead and organise them. also not fully sure but don't they have an iffy line regarding queer ppl
FRSO
not as bad as the first two but they make a pretty crucial mistake in saying that the US is no longer a settler-colony, IIRC
FRSO does not officially believe that last part.
PSL are not tailist
Also, we at CPUSA are not feds or supporters of Democrats.
FRSO does not officially believe that last part.
if that's the case then maybe i should reassess my view on them
all I've seen PSL doing is showing up to marches with placards but then running away as soon as things get spicy, and in general failing to actually engage with the masses and determine a revolutionary programme that will win their support. they had a strong presence in the 2020 uprisings and a strong presence in the present Palestine solidarity movement but I see non-communist organisers in those movements often critiquing PSL's participation in them (perhaps, admittedly, the PSL organisers who did do this effectively back in 2020 were the ones who got murdered by the pigs)
and forgive me if i'm wrong but didn't the CPUSA say that people should vote Biden in 2020 as a "vote against fascism" or something. i'm also not gonna suggest the CPUSA is entirely fed operated but there is a long history of successful infiltration there.
overall i'm not saying that none of these sects have any value or that they don't have a lot of decent communists involved, but none of them are exactly the American Bolsheviks, and only the FRSO seems willing to admit that it's not The Party in any way shape or form at present.
FRSO are good comrades and they have been growing by leaps and bounds and even helped get a few legislation passed in Chicago, despite their "small" size.
I've worked with PSL comrades. They're fine. Keep in mind that it depends on the group.
CPUSA's Twitter account said something to that effect (which did not specify Biden), but we are barred from supporting or endorsing candidates outside of our own and even had a schism with Sam Webb back in 2014 when he tried to turn CPUSA into a Dem group. Sam Webb lost and the rest of the Nat'l Committee won. It also may depend on the specific part of the CPUSA and, keep in mind, CPUSA has had at times internal disagreements and differing opinions. But in general, since 2014 and especially since 2019, things have been better, imho.
Also, they're not "sects." They're not religious groups. We need to stop viewing ML groups like this. We're scientific socialists. We shouldn't be castigating each other, especially those that are out there on the streets fighting oppression, yeah? Which is why I don't speak of them that way.
CPUSA does not classify as any Marxist party
They have no international solidarity and I've met multiple prominent CPUSA members who vocally support reformism and the police state
What type of party is it when leaders can say stuff like this and not get purged?
At least DSA doesn't pretend to be anything they're not and still accomplish more material good than CPUSA lol
This is why I moved to build a PSL branch in my area instead of a CPUSA branch
FRSO is technically a pre-party formation, but yea they are a ML organization focusing on building a working class party
I don't know where you are but I hear mixed things about DSA.
My experience with the DSA in my area makes them laughable at best. This kinda shit from their members or cacuses makes total sense in my experience.
Los Angeles area which despite what people say as far as I can tell is packed to the fucking gills with CHUDs and unscratched liberals
What do people say, that LA is packed with Communists? Haha
I don't know LA DSA but I wouldn't place great hope in them either.
Lol. The fucking president of an AES country (or ANY COUNTRY) makes time to sit down and talk with you and you skip out? What in the entire fuck.
I've always defended DSA, even against many, many criticisms that are lobbed at them by other MLs, but this is... wrong.
So... wrong-headed of them to do this.
Let's say that you are in opposition to someone's political project. Imo there are there are four major options available:
To ask or demand that they cease a course of action such as a war or that they release political prisoners like Leonard Peltier or Mumia Abu-Jamal.
This is useful in a Khrushchev-type situation because you can quote them directly, debunk their bullshit, and if you're lucky you might even be able to get ahead of where they have signalled they are taking things to provide pre-emptive critique with which to strengthen the counter-movement.
This is more in the style of the dying art of the adversarial journalist. You throw difficult or impossible questions at them and try to trip them up or expose more information than they otherwise would. Unlikely that this would be tolerated from a "friendly" delegation that is being extended the offer of a private audience to much extent.
This is where you are completely opposed to them or where they are doing something unconscionable at the moment. For best effect, attend and then when the hot-button issue gets mentioned or you bring it up, walk out at their response.
(Of course there are a million other options depending on the circumstances such as choosing to meet with king Charles so you can keep your hands in your pockets and spit in his face or to talk enthusiastically about the French or October Revolutions.)
These people are supposed to be part of a political vanguard.
The fact that they are playing at politics like it's a fucking highschool popularity contest speaks volumes about how deeply unserious and oblivious they are. I would have a modicum of respect for them if they had chosen to act in a way that advances their political ends to some extent, even if I disagreed with their goals. This, however, is dismal.
I hope the Cuban government rejects those people who didn't meet with Diaz-Canel and instead met with the opposition leaders next time they apply for a visa.
I would have a modicum of respect for them if they had chosen to act in a way that advances their political ends to some extent, even if I disagreed with their goals. This, however, is dismal.
They met up with Cuban dissent groups. That's their political goal: to network with Cuban dissent groups in Cuba and Cuban gusanos in Miami (she mentioned how she focuses her organizing on gusanos in Miami) with the ultimate political goal of toppling the Cuban government.
She's an op.
Oh goddamn.
Without wanting to cause drama, I have a very low bar for my expectations of the DSA (especially the executive end of it) but despite that I'm still surprised to hear about this.
On a personal level the only reason I'd ever get involved with the DSA would be to network with people on a grassroots level, especially where there aren't other options in my region, or to foment a split.
Every time I speak to a self-proclaimed "democratic socialist" or I hear about a DemSoc org invariably I come away from it even more disappointed in them. It's funny how these clowns will chastise people like me for "advocating for bloody and violent revolution" and how reformism is the correct/only way or how I need to change my rhetoric or my approach because I will "lose them"; I always respond to them telling them that they are my ideological opponent and that I neither want their approval nor am I seeking it. This usually upsets them because they tend to have a serious case of political Main Character Syndrome where they presume that everyone agrees with them, where they think that they have a special claim over the term "socialist", and they assume that everyone wants their involvement:
"I don't want to play with you!!"
"Good, I ain't playin'. Go home because you aren't wanted here."
Maria in particular met with anti-government opposition groups
That's an Insta-gulag right there as far as I'm concerned.
Gulag is merciful.
Castro and Che would've put them against the wall in the early period.
This was a coordinated effort by Trot entryists.
I think most people here like to joke about icepicks, but remember that these people are genuinely enemies of the working class.
Huh, my trot language filter was tripped by that person in that thread saying they were one of their friends and most effective comrades (salt members here say something pretty similar every time its one of their birthdays). Didn't mention it because why would I
Can't read any additional posts, can someone post a nitter link or something?
Deeply fucking unserious
Comedy.
Are ya winning anglo "leftists"
Like, why did they even go to Cuba in the first place if they were going to do this? Why even attend?
To go to the beach and contact with the color revolution leader apparently
yeh
Paid vacation.
Always analyze DSA drama through the lens of downwardly-mobile professionals who care exclusively about ensuring they get paid by DSA instead of working for a living.
The DSA will reform the Democratic Party. Just you wait! They may not have moved the Overton window in over 40 years but it’ll happen any day now.
Mike Davis was talking about this occurring in the 80s in Prisoners of the American Dream
is anything being done about the obvious fed?
Last I saw they were defending her. Absolute clown shit. She should just be a Democrat Instead of pretending to be anything further left.
"Headed off to my next DSA meeting, fellow comrades. Who wants to go do a solidarity?"
It is not good to fed-jacket the entire DSA, though I understand that this incident stirs up feelings.
It is concerning that we take allegations of being feds more seriously for anonymous forum posters than we do IRL people whose names have been reported.
Every detail is infuriating. An absolute disgrace.
Honestly, very disappointing.
Should have kept them and reducated them.
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