this post was submitted on 14 Jul 2023
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No Stupid Questions

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I've run across these terms several times, but without enough context to figure out what they mean. Could someone help me out, please?

ETA All of you are amazing! A huge thank you to everyone who responded, and an extra thank you to those who have provided links or explanations to further and/or related information. I am learning so much by reading all of these comments!

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[–] Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world 165 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Sealioning is the constant bad faith, feigning ignorance, asking for evidence of everything under the guise of “just asking questions”. Then ignoring any evidence presented and moving on to the next demand. Used to shut down discourse entirely.

Tankies are leftists that defend or deny the atrocities committed by authoritarian communist regimes like the Soviet Union or the CCP. It was first used to describe communists in Great Britain that defended the Soviet Union for using tanks to crush anti-communist revolutions.

[–] Aatube@lemmy.dbzer0.com 38 points 1 year ago (15 children)

It doesn’t have to be leftists, anyone who does that is a tankie.

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[–] clueless_stoner@lemmy.world 131 points 1 year ago (17 children)

"Sealioning" here refers to a way of trolling by asking ill-intended questions, usually disguising it in innocence. When other members try to explain and help, they'd try to lure them into hours of discussion upon it, usually by knowingly misinterpreting what they heard.

Or worse, just directly disrespect and reject all the suggestions the commenters provided. The essence is being a waste of time for everyone.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 53 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I dont mind most sea mammals...

But sea lions?

I could do without sea lions

https://wondermark.com/c/1k62/

That's what coined the term

[–] Aviandelight@mander.xyz 11 points 1 year ago

Thank you for this I had no idea what was going on.

[–] TheBananaKing@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

But y'know, if someone walks up and makes disparaging racist remarks about how they don't like your kind, following them round and demanding they explain themselves out loud is about the most appropriate response that exists.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

I mean, yeah, if they're racist.

But just because the comic picked a sea lion doesn't mean it's about race... It's just an easy way to identify a group of things.

It could be "people who kiss their grown children on the mouth" or "people who smoke crack 5 times a day".

It's any group of people.

[–] Bingohas@lemmy.world 35 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I like to call it JAQing off

[–] Azjax@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

WhAt, I'm jUsT aSkIng QuEsTiOnS.

Hate that.

confused Tucker face

[–] blackbelt352@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

Sealioning is a sort of evolution of JAQing off. It's the JAQ coupled with feigned innocence and indignance when people actually stop putting up with BS.

Actually after thinking a bit deeper about it, it mirrors Socratic Questioning, but with the opposite intended end goal of muddying the waters instead of gaining clarity.

[–] abc@lemmy.fmhy.ml 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Is this the same as "concern trolling"?

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Concern trolling is acting like you're concerned about the consequences of something.

Like,

If we let people wear masks during COVID, we'll see more bank robberies because masks are normalized!

Sea Lioning would be if I just kept asking you questions about why masks help, often while asking you to link sources. I don't actually want to see any sources tho. I'm just going to keep asking new questions and for more sources until you get tired and stop replying.

Because the more time you waste on me, they less you help people who are genuinely asking for it. Plus when you stop replying, I can claim that as a victory because that must mean there aren't any sources that agree with you.

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[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

It's related but it differs on the form. Concern trolling is derailing online discussions and debates by simulating concern over a seemingly valid counterpoint, making all participants waste time and effort arguing a previously settled matter, or pretending to just be playing devil's advocate. Acting as if, although you support the cause or discussion at hand, you somehow still have some valid concerns to oppose.

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[–] KurtDunniehue@ttrpg.network 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I've seen Sealioning used quite a bit in a particular Lemmy instance that would self describe themselves as Pro-Russia & Pro-China, as a way of shutting down discourse between people who disagree with them. There are people who disagree with a particular narrative, and they're discounted immediately for wanting to know how someone would arrive at a pro-Russian & pro-China position.

Also they'll just "whatabout!" and change the subject whenever unassailable critiques of these regimes come up. As if its is only possible to hold outrage in a single direction at a time.

I'll have you know I'm capable of disliking EVERYONE mentioned in a given conversation.

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[–] skepticalifornia@lemmy.world 85 points 1 year ago (5 children)

“Tankies” is slang for communists who align with the philosophy of authoritarian rule, like the Soviet Union who used violence to keep countries under their control in check.

Sealioning is something I saw a lot on Reddit, but not so much here - it is when someone responds continuously asking questions, trying to seem like they are engaged, but in reality they are trolling you. Like when you say something like “The sky is so blue today” and the come back with “That is interesting, do you have a link to some information that I can learn more about that?”

[–] SacredHeartAttack@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Oh my god I get sealioned in real life. Now I can call people out on it with a title.

[–] Sheltac@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That’s interesting, do you have a link where I could read more about that?

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[–] ruck_feddit@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Asking for proof isn't necessarily trolling. Someone making wild claims should have to source their knowledge

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (9 children)

They're not really communists tho, because (like you said) they defend the use of violence by a ruling class

A ruling class just wouldn't exist under actual communism. Which is the main reason communism won't work for any group more than like ~200 people in size.

They're fans of fake communism like the Soviet Union or China

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[–] nothacking@discuss.tchncs.de 69 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Tankies are the cringe "communists", authoritarians that beleave that no one but them (definitely not rich people) should have power. You can generally spot them because they often idolize the Soviet Union and CCP, despite the fact that both were/are authoritarian shitholes.

Sealioning is when you repeatedly ask someone basic questions in an attempt to annoy them or make it look like they don't have any. Often sealioners pretend they just want to engage in debate, but in reality ignore or deny any evidence or arguments presented.

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[–] Neato@kbin.social 50 points 1 year ago (13 children)

Tankies are Red Fascists. They're essentially communism-flavored authoritarians. I would contend they do not qualify as "left", "leftists", etc but far-right. They support and defend Soviet Russia and the CCP, specifically defending their atrocities and oppression.

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[–] IchNichtenLichten@server1.duluth.lol 37 points 1 year ago (1 children)

One thing about sealioning that I haven't seen mentioned yet is that it's a tactic designed to utterly exhaust the other person by asking question after question with no willingness to listen to the answers. It's there to waste time and grind down your opponent until they have had enough of your bullshit and tell you to fuck off. At that point you can feign offense and declare victory.

[–] CodeMonkeyDance@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A quick jab can help cure sealioning.

[–] ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 year ago

Or a club to the fucking head.

(For legal and animal cruelty reasons this is a joke.)

[–] andromedusgalacticus@lemm.ee 34 points 1 year ago (7 children)

For sea-lioning, here’s the comic the term originated from to explain it

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[–] FatsLardenfeldt@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Sealioning originiates with this comic strip. Tankies is a perjorative term broadly applied to anyoneone with marxist-leninist beliefs, applied by centre left and liberals. It refers originally to the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia with the implication being that "tankies" support the crushing of resistence to Soviet authority but used more generally just do dismiss anyone with militantly anti-capitalist ideals.

[–] Jo@readit.buzz 14 points 1 year ago

applied by centre left and liberals

It's a term that originates with the left. Specifically, those who broke with the USSR over imperialist invasions, referring to those who did not. More broadly, it refers to the authoritarian left (as opposed to the anarchist left).

[–] danhakimi@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Tankies are generally not just anybody with communist perspectives, but a. certain extreme. A tankie is the type of person who will essentially argue that capitalism and western society are the roots of all evil, and deflect from any criticism of Russia, China, Iran, etc. by attacking the US instead of actually addressing the criticism.

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[–] WheeGeetheCat@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 year ago
[–] BouncyFerret@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Thank you all for your help, it is much appreciated!

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