this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2023
551 points (94.2% liked)
Asklemmy
43796 readers
741 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
If you adopt a utilitarian perspective I agree (and I also totally agree that this is a matter of philosophy, clearly the norms do not support my hot take). If only the end matters and not the reasons, I agree that the ethical quandary falls away.
I tend to think utilitarian ethics are quite useful for states or organizations, but I don’t think individual ethics are typically the utilitarian kind (though we are surely influenced by utilitarian analysis for example a lot of vegans are vegan for straight up environmental reason and therefore wouldn’t even need to contemplate the ethics of fake meat beyond environmental impact). I think there’s a more innate sense of ethics that makes me not want to eat something as vital and curious as a cow or a chicken. I’m not trying to reduce the total amount of harm in the world, I just don’t want to be the cause of the death of another entity when I can help it. Eating a vegan burger that looks and feels like a beef burger feels like symbolic support of a practice I don’t support. Perhaps if all beef were pseudo beef that would change things.
Burgers look absolutely nothing like a dead animal. Carnists have already done the work to remove the imagery of the act of violence from eating meat. Most vegans wouldn't eat e.g. a vegan rotisserie chicken because that actually does look like a murdered animal.
Also, you can't be vegan for environmental reasons. Veganism is explicitly about ethics
why do you gatekeep?
So as not to muddy the vegan movement. Veganism is explicitly about ethics, and stretches beyond a diet and into anything else that involves animal products
imagine i'm asking people for money and they give me change but i specifically meant personal checks. this is you. this is you right now.
Not even close