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Sisko was kind of crazy... (startrek.website)
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[-] Stamets@startrek.website 31 points 1 year ago

Okay. I'ma do it. I'm going to say the most controversial thing I've ever said on here so far.

Sisko is my least favorite Captain by a significant margin. Him making a planet completely uninhabitable for humanoid life and forcing refugees to flee again is a seriously big reason as to why I don't like him. The whole assassination plot is another reason, although that's open for debate. Sterilizing a planet for centuries just so you can hunt down a single man? One that you have a personal connection with? One you clearly have feelings of vengeance over? I can't get with it.

"You cannot explain away a wantonly immoral act because you think it is connected to some higher purpose." ~ Jean-Luc Picard

[-] PurpleCat@lemm.ee 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

As someone who has had this opinion "Sisko is a war criminal who destroyed a planet's biosphere" I encourage you to rewatch the episode.

  • the "refugees" are terrorists who developed the bomb Sisko used, he just returned it from cardassian DNA to human DNA

  • this is not about a personal vendetta, this is about the treaty with cardassia that will save lives.

  • These terrorists are jeopardizing peace just because they aren't willing to relocate, not because they have a spiritual connection with the land ("TNG:Journey's End") but because they "Already built a home here" . The settlers Picard was going to remove by force actually joined the cardassians because they didn't want to leave, but the Maqius are so racist they were willing to use said weapon to make the planet uninhabitable to cardassians

  • on racism: Eddington says "the Maqius are not killers" after blowing up a cardassian vessel.

  • yes they did have a vendetta but Sisko played that aspect of this conflict so Eddington would turn himself in.

It's not confirmed in the show or anything, but I doubt the Maqius were only going to use that weapon defensively.

[-] Stamets@startrek.website 2 points 1 year ago

I've rewatched the episode fairly recently and I stand by my decision. Sisko had no reasonable justification to do what he did, in my opinion. Are there arguments? Sure, but none that I consider valid simply because of the quote that I ended that previous comment on. You cannot explain away a wantonly immoral act because you think it is connected to some higher purpose.

Terrorist is a point of opinion. They were still people fleeing occupation and reclaiming their world. On top of that, are you willing to say that every single Maquis member is a terrorist? Every man, woman and child? That they deserved to all go through that when they might not have any other options to turn to? That doesn't seem very Starfleet to me.

That being said, who they are makes literally no difference to me. There were other solutions. Sisko didn't need an immediate answer in that moment. He actively went to the planet and decided to gas it himself. The actions carried out by Sisko are the problem. Not who he takes them out on. But the personal vendetta plays a significant role and you cannot deny that it does. The majority of the episode is Sisko throwing a temper tantrum over Eddington. Eddington even successfully manages to tease Sisko into making rash decisions. Sisko actively endangered his own crew to hunt down Eddington. The Defiant was not remotely fit for service but he still brought her out, nearly smashing the hell out of it by colliding with the station itself.

Every single action taken by Sisko in that episode horrifies me. He allows himself to get played so easily and then says "Oh I'll play the villain" and attacks the planet. He's so utterly not Starfleet in that episode that it hurts. The fact he doesn't show any remorse, but actively enjoys the fact that he's managed to capture Eddington, really sickens me. If he had shown any iota of a problem with what he was doing then it would be a different conversation. Sisko didn't. He rarely shows remorse and it's why I don't like him. A good Captain should be willing to question the decisions he makes. When he doesn't the answer of what's right and what's wrong, he shouldn't be able to sleep well at night. The fact I have two episodes to point to and say "Look at Sisko commiting unspeakable acts. Now look at Sisko completely absolving himself of all responsibility and assuring himself that he's right" really sticks in my craw. I can't like the man.

[-] PurpleCat@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Because you said you rewatched it, how do you justify you use of the words "sterilized" and "humanoid" in your comment I originally replied to? Additionally, you use the word "Centuries" but the bomb will only "make the planet uninhabitable to all human life for the next fifty years."

What occupation are these Maqius humans fleeing from?

Why do you say they have no other options despite being offered to be resettled?

How are the Maqius "reclaiming" that world?

Is using a chemical method to make the planet uninhabitable to humans less moral than Picard teleporting everyone away against their will?

What do you think the cardassians would have done to the men women and children if Sisko did not solve this problem preemptively?

Edit: was it immoral for Kira to burn down the cottage in DS9: Progress?

[-] Stamets@startrek.website 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I still stand by my comment. While I misremembered it being over 50 years, and I typoed humanoid instead of human sterilized is still a correct word when it comes to human life. As for the rest of your comments

What occupation are these Maqius humans fleeing from?

What? The Maquis are literally an organized group of resistors who've had their homes, in the DMZ, occupied by Cardassia. That is literally their driving motivation. Their homes and worlds were signed over to the Cardassian Union and they were left to cope. They responded by creating the Maquis. This is also why I've used the word refugees. The people who settled on that planet were people who were forced out by Starfleet/Cardassia after they had their homes taken away from them.

Why do you say they have no other options despite being offered to be resettled?

Because resettlement isn't, and never was, an option. They weren't given the choice to stay or to leave. They were forced to leave. Forced out of their homes. Forced out of the place that they've put down roots and made memories. All to have their planets put in a DMZ and then resettled by an empire who does massively horrific shit on the daily.

How are the Maqius “reclaiming” that world?

Was literally their world.

Is using a chemical method to make the planet uninhabitable to humans less moral than Picard teleporting everyone away against their will?

Has zero relevance to the conversation at hand. They were two different circumstances and they're not comparable.

What do you think the cardassians would have done to the men women and children if Sisko did not solve this problem preemptively?

Completely hypothetical and also irrelevant. My issue is HOW Sisko 'solved' the problem. Not that he did.

Your entire comment has been predicated on looking at individual actions, alone, and in no vacuum. This is untenable to the point that I've made. That point being that my main issue with Sisko is him allowing his judgment to cloud his feelings. You aren't bringing that up. You aren't ever touching on that fact despite me saying that was my biggest issue.

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this post was submitted on 03 Sep 2023
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