this post was submitted on 10 Jul 2023
33 points (100.0% liked)

Daystrom Institute

3445 readers
1 users here now

Welcome to Daystrom Institute!

Serious, in-depth discussion about Star Trek from both in-universe and real world perspectives.

Read more about how to comment at Daystrom.

Rules

1. Explain your reasoning

All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.

2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.

This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in Risa.

3. Be diplomatic.

Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make Star Trek. Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.

4. Assume good faith.

Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”

5. Tag spoilers.

Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.

6. Stay on-topic.

Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.

Episode Guides

The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

I’m not talking about stuff like O’Brien’s hollow rank pip, I’m talking about stuff like “Why make Chakotay a lt. commander rather than a full commander?”

It seems like there was at least some forethought put into who has what rank, but it’s not clear to me how much thought, nor how much meaning was supposed to be baked in to those decisions.

For example, Dr Crusher was a full commander from Day 1, matched only by Riker on the main cast. Was that supposed to signify the authority afforded to the CMO? Was it supposed to be blatant enough for the audience to “get” it?

One of the most prominent examples is Sisko starting his series as a commander. Again — was that supposed to signify that he was more junior, a younger officer?

Behind the scenes, I wonder if we can trace a waxing and waning military influence in the writers room over the years. I know Roddenberry served, and I think some of the early TNG writers did as well. But I feel like that became less common in later series? (But I don’t know for sure.)

I think it’s striking that rank is significantly downplayed on DSC, except for Burnham and potentially Saru.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Voyager763@startrek.website 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

“Why make Chakotay a lt. commander rather than a full commander?”

Even after all these years, I'm not convinced that they did.

I'll note upfront that I know his provisional rank insignia was that of Lt. Commander, and I know that it's common practice to refer to a Lt. Commander as simply "commander". Data, Worf, and Tuvok were regularly referred to as simply "Commander". I fully understand this. But the thing is that these other officers were introduced, or introduced themselves, in formal situations by their full rank on more than one occasion. When the plot called for their personnel files to appear on screen, their full ranks were displayed with their name as "Lt. Commander".

Chakotay was never, not even once, referred to out loud or in text as "Lieutenant Commander".

From a Doylist perspective, I'm of the mind that the writers intended for Chakotay to be a full Commander, the same rank as Riker or early-DS9 Sisko, but the costume department goofed and it was simply never corrected — because on the screens of the era, it didn't really matter because who's gonna look that closely at the guy's neck?

A possible Watsonian explanation is that while he was granted the rank of Lt. Commander provisionally (the rank he held prior to his resignation from Starfleet as well as the rank held by Janeway's original XO), he was also given the rank of Acting Commander... as a courtesy, maybe? Or maybe Starfleet regulations prevented Janeway from granting any provisional ranks higher than Lt. Commander because that's the rank her XO held. Compare this situation to Wesley Crusher, who was granted the rank of Acting Ensign but never wore a rank insignia because Starfleet never gave him one. So Janeway could formally grant Chakotay the rank (and the accompanying rank insignia) of Lieutenant Commander in the field, then found a loophole somewhere in the regulations that allowed him to introduce himself formally as Commander.

[–] Commod0re@startrek.website 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

because on the screens of the era, it didn’t really matter because who’s gonna look that closely at the guy’s neck?

Maybe I was a weird kid but I was keenly aware of the pips on the uniforms after the point in TNG where they vaguely explain how the rank insignia pips work. It was never for any particular reason except to know another “thing” about my favorite characters.

That’s not to say that you’re wrong, maybe that’s what they told themselves when they didn’t change it! But if so they definitely underestimated some fans, lol

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)