Men's Liberation
This community is first and foremost a feminist community for men and masc people, but it is also a place to talk about men’s issues with a particular focus on intersectionality.
Rules
Everybody is welcome, but this is primarily a space for men and masc people
Non-masculine perspectives are incredibly important in making sure that the lived experiences of others are present in discussions on masculinity, but please remember that this is a space to discuss issues pertaining to men and masc individuals. Be kind, open-minded, and take care that you aren't talking over men expressing their own lived experiences.
Be productive
Be proactive in forming a productive discussion. Constructive criticism of our community is fine, but if you mainly criticize feminism or other people's efforts to solve gender issues, your post/comment will be removed.
Keep the following guidelines in mind when posting:
- Build upon the OP
- Discuss concepts rather than semantics
- No low effort comments
- No personal attacks
Assume good faith
Do not call other submitters' personal experiences into question.
No bigotry
Slurs, hate speech, and negative stereotyping towards marginalized groups will not be tolerated.
No brigading
Do not participate if you have been linked to this discussion from elsewhere. Similarly, links to elsewhere on the threadiverse must promote constructive discussion of men’s issues.
Recommended Reading
- The Will To Change: Men, Masculinity, And Love by bell hooks
- Politics of Masculinities: Men in Movements by Michael Messner
Related Communities
!feminism@beehaw.org
!askmen@lemmy.world
!mensmentalhealth@lemmy.world
view the rest of the comments
Let's ask the opposite question... If you're not useful, what are you doing with your time?
As much as I enjoy spending time in the 'nothing box' (i.e. doing nothing productive or of any consequence) I have an innate desire to solve problems, take care of my family and friends, make things better for them, and improve the lives of others in general. The solving of problems allows me to earn a living, yay for me. Everything else just gives me life meaning.
So I'll say again... Where's the glory in being useless?
@TemporaryBoyfriend @spaduf
We should reject models of masculinity that demand maleness be connected with performance. "Masculinity must stand for the for the essential core goodness of the self".
Patriarchal masculinity demands that men perform a gender role. True masculinity celebrates the dignity of humanity without condition.
So you've reduced masculinity "having testicles".
You haven't really answered my question. If you aren't useful, what are you?
@TemporaryBoyfriend
Human. Reducing humanity to usefulness only makes sense in a dominator model. Domination means extraction of utility from others. Maleness is good not for the reason that men are objects to be used. Maleness is good in itself. Patriarchal masculinity tells the lie that manhood is connected to a man's usefulness, to his capacity to do violence, to fight wars, to take from those who are weaker or lesser.
I still feel like you're missing the point. You must be useful in order to survive. Stripping away all human culture, in the wild, an animal that isn't useful to itself or the group it belongs to is... food for other individuals and groups. Without utility (the ability to hunt/gather, use violence to protect itself, the group, or territory) an organism is... fertilizer. Even plants have utility -- convert CO2 to Oxygen & water & fibrous material, procreate, provide habitat or food to other organisms (as a procreation method) -- and there's no patriarchy telling them to be productive or useful.
I'm not sure what sort of utopia you're arguing in favour of, but I choose to be useful to improve my life for myself, my friends, and society at large. I choose to not be a burden to others wherever possible. I'm happy to pay my taxes and receive benefits in return that improve my life in return -- clean water, roads, free education, social programs and healthcare, etc. I'm also happy that my taxes help provide these things who can't immediately contribute to pay for these things -- because having basic needs met serves as a foundation for society to grow and build upon.
@TemporaryBoyfriend
The topic is about being pressured to feel like a "useful man", which is a central concept of patriarchal masculinity. It's great that you are a responsible person. But you are the one missing the point here.
I suppose I don't get the idea that people are feeling 'pressure' that isn't a normal and natural part of merely being alive. Unless you're an animal in a zoo, where your needs are met automagically by a benevolent altruistic force that wants nothing in return, the pressure comes in the form of being hungry and wanting food, being cold and wanting warmth, being outside and wanting a structure to live inside.
@TemporaryBoyfriend
"do you feel like your worth as a man is related to your practical utility?"
Where in your post do you talk about worth and how self-value is gendered?
Why are you acting like we are cavemen?