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Found this in my college sociology book (Henslin 2007) (lemmy.world)

submitted 10 months ago by UnpopularCrow@lemmy.world to c/196@lemmy.blahaj.zone

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Happy new year

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[-] wrath_of_grunge@kbin.social 117 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

pic of the newly married couple

this was pretty bad. it was bad enough that even back then you had people pointing out how bad it was. it was so bad that various states passed laws so that it would be against the law, going forward.

the textbook's point is that even though this wasn't common place, it was somewhat taken for granted.

i can kind of understand somethings. like how it was probably far more common back then for people to be married by the ages of 15-18. i can get that. but the case of Johns and Eunice, it was shocking even then. that should tell you something.

that thing being that Johns was a pedophile.

[-] UnpopularCrow@lemmy.world 43 points 10 months ago

I agree. It was certainly more common for child marriages but not that extreme. That guy was definitely a pedo. If you are buying your wife a doll for her wedding present you need to rethink your life choices.

[-] FlickOfTheBean@lemmy.world 31 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Ok, this may be wrong history but I could have sworn I saw some article a few years ago explaining that this marriage happened because it was the middle of the great depression and her parents couldn't afford to feed her or something like that.

Makes it worse, imo.

That said, was he a pedo? If sex happened then obviously yes, but I thought this marriage was a charity case more so than a "indulge a pedo who's interested in our daughter during the depression" situation...

I'm gonna have to go find that article at some point...

Edit: welp, I went looking for it, couldn't find it, so everything above this line may be bullshit, but based on the age she had her first child at, yeah I'd say that obviously counts as some pedo shit

[-] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 9 points 10 months ago

Even if it was a charity case and he waited to fuck her until she was of age it's still grooming. They should have lynched this motherfucker as soon as he expressed interest in marrying a 9 year old.

[-] Soulg@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago

Yes yes death is the only solution to anything bad

[-] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 4 points 10 months ago

It's the only solution to child molesters.

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[-] UnpopularCrow@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

Interesting. That would certainly change the situation. Please post it if you do find it or DM me. I would be curious if that was the case!

[-] orcrist@lemm.ee 4 points 10 months ago

It would not change how bad that guy's actions are. If anything it would make it worse.

[-] ReluctantMuskrat@lemmy.world 16 points 10 months ago

My dad was born in Eastern Kentucky in 1916 so grew up in the same era and region. He knew a guy that married a 12 year old and the guy confided in him that the first day he came home from work after getting married he found his wife playing with a doll. He felt bad, and of course he should have.

Even that marriage was considered bad back then, and this 9 year old of course is about as horrible as can be imagined.

[-] Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago

Maybe it's just unfortunate connotation with the phrasing but "these marriages were taken for granted" sounds like the author is saying that people didn't appreciate that they could do that back then.

[-] shani66@lemmy.comfysnug.space 3 points 10 months ago

That really isn't what that phrase means, taken for granted just means people thought it was a normal part of life. It's taken for granted now that we don't have metallic skin and electric eyes, but if we are lucky that won't always be the case.

[-] 0x0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 10 months ago

I beg to differ. This is straight up the second definition on Merriam Webster. It's a poor choice of words if the author didn't want readers to interpret it this way.

to value (something or someone) too lightly

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/take%20for%20granted

[-] randomsnark@lemmy.ml 105 points 10 months ago

Apparently this was actually a pretty significant case, as it was publicised at the time and led to the creation of laws setting the minimum age for marriage at 16. Although, wikipedia claims he was 24 rather than 22. I feel like this suggests this wasnt really the norm at the time the way the textbook suggests. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_of_Charlie_Johns_and_Eunice_Winstead

[-] blaine@lemmy.ml 36 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

There are only five sentences of text on that page, with the last one explaining that this sort of marriage was not common at all. Where did you get the idea that the textbook is suggesting that this was the norm?

[-] randomsnark@lemmy.ml 47 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

The second paragraph to the right of the photo talks about how our perception of these things changes with time, and while it seems shocking to us now it would once have been taken for granted. It was a big news story at the time and was not taken for granted.

Edit: I guess my wording was a bit off. I meant to say that it was not within the cultural norms of the time. As worded, it sounds like I'm discussing its frequency rather than its level of acceptance - that's my bad.

Intended meaning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_norm

[-] fine_sandy_bottom@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 10 months ago

Given that the law was passed two weeks after they were married I think it has already been drafted and the whole subject was probably one of much debate. Also note three neighbouring states passed laws at the same time.

It seems likely that someone said "find a story about under-age marriage for our front page", and these two hapless yokels (or should I say Johns the hapless yokel) were the only ones stupid enough to have their photos taken.

In summary, I think society was working up to passing a law like this, and these two had a bride that was younger than most and got married at the right time.

That said, the author has definitely tried to imply that this sort of marriage was commonplace in the 30s, when it was probably at most "unusual".

[-] frezik@midwest.social 9 points 10 months ago

Maybe an example that gets the point across would be European royalty. When Mary Tudor was six, she was promised to Charles V of the Holy Roman Empire. He was 22, and they were cousins.

While that might not be typical of marriages in England at the time, there are certainly similar cases among the nobility until relatively recently. Enough to make the point about how cultural standards change.

[-] Jilanico@lemmy.world 64 points 10 months ago

"...in 2017, Human Rights Watch pointed out that Afghanistan has a tougher law on child marriage than parts of the United States..." 😨

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage_in_the_United_States

[-] barsoap@lemm.ee 21 points 10 months ago

Make sure to insist on a honeymoon in Germany as over here marriages under 16 get auto-divorced (16-18 a judge will decide) and you have a solid reason for asylum.

[-] CoffeeJunkie@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

That's cute & all, but even if certain things happen to be correct, I don't give a flying fuck what the people running Afghanistan have as laws of the land. They're so fucked up. Just had a discussion on here, they've got all these laws, kill the homosexuals, homosexuals are just an abomination. But hey....there's this powerful warlord or prominent man engaging in bacha bazi.....ehhhhh, we'll pretend that's not happening. Maybe even join in. Gross hypocrisy.

[-] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 9 points 10 months ago

They're so fucked up.

That's the point. The fucked up place has stricter rules on this fucked up thing than places in the US.

That's fucked up

[-] jdf038@mander.xyz 1 points 10 months ago

That was post-pre-taliban though (jfc typing that feels so dumb)

I'd guess it's worse in 2023 for Afghanistan now.

[-] m12421k@iusearchlinux.fyi 48 points 10 months ago

Did I read this wrong or the author is really trying to frame it as a cutesy normal thing?

[-] protist@mander.xyz 74 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I don't see that at all, seems like they're just pointing out how cultural norms can change over time, which is a basic ~~tenant~~ tenet of sociology

[-] fine_sandy_bottom@lemmy.dbzer0.com 24 points 10 months ago

*tenet

[-] Rusty@lemmy.ca 2 points 10 months ago

Nolan really outdone himself in that movie

[-] m12421k@iusearchlinux.fyi 13 points 10 months ago

makes sense 👍

[-] ULS@lemmy.ml 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Idk that sounds completely American pride-ish to me... 🤮

[-] protist@mander.xyz 35 points 10 months ago

To think child marriage is just an American thing is to ignore reality

[-] academia_sucks1024@sh.itjust.works 2 points 10 months ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_interactionism

Stay in school everybody.

[-] yesman@lemmy.world 42 points 10 months ago

Textbooks can be wild. My A&P textbook had a graphic showing the difference between Caucasian, Asian, and SSAfrican skulls. I was like: what the eugenics?

[-] theUnlikely@sopuli.xyz 33 points 10 months ago

Pardon my ignorance, but aren't the skulls often shaped a bit differently? If the textbook was just showing that and not saying something about one shape making a certain race superior, is that still a problem?

Different races will often have little differences right? My favorite example is the gene variant ABCC11 that is extremely common in South Korea. It limits the production of odorous sweat by reducing the activity of apocrine glands. I think it also affects whether ear wax is wet or dry. I'm kind of jealous of that one and am waiting for CRISPR to be available for it. Well maybe not, but I'd at least think about it.

[-] Nowsuiluj@lemm.ee 4 points 10 months ago

I did not know that. I'm part Korean and my friend keeps telling me I always smell fine even when I'm camping for days. Always thought it was a myth though. Kinda cool

[-] theUnlikely@sopuli.xyz 1 points 10 months ago

So lucky!

[-] TwinTusks@bitforged.space 3 points 10 months ago

I do believe there are differences in different race of people, isn't there a small part in Africa where the population are best suited for running? However, there shouldn't be much difference in skulls by itself. All infants are borned with malleble skull until age of two or so.

[-] Shelbyeileen@lemmy.world 19 points 10 months ago

We learned it in forensics and reconstructive cosmetology. The shape of the skull can often be used to determine race. I loathed having to list out the scientific names, because they're not words you say nowadays.

[-] Landless2029@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

In the American TV show BONES this was literally done every episode. It wasn't a race thing really it was presented in a respectfully "scientific" manner.