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When Alabama's Supreme Court defined frozen embryos as children, the shock and confusion was immediate. Major hospitals pulled fertility services and would-be parents scrambled for clarity on what would happen next.

The debate over reproductive rights in America has long been driven, in part, by opposition to abortion from Christian groups - but this ruling has divided that movement and ignited debate about the role of theology in US lawmaking.

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[–] MonkderZweite@feddit.ch 91 points 10 months ago (2 children)

So Alabama's supreme court can rule on mere belief?

[–] clif@lemmy.world 104 points 10 months ago (5 children)

“Even before birth, all human beings have the image of God, and their lives cannot be destroyed without effacing his glory,” Chief Justice Tom Parker wrote.

That's how it looks to me.

[–] Kalkaline@leminal.space 68 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Seems like the whole thing is in direct contradiction with the establishment clause.

[–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 58 points 10 months ago

It seems clear at this point they no longer care about the law or precedent or tradition, they just want to punish and subjugate people they don't like.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 23 points 10 months ago

If only SCOTUS didn't have a right-wing religious majority...

[–] Coach@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

Our entire form of government is antithetical to Christianity. Christians need to keep that religious shit to their homes and churches.

[–] TruthAintEasy@kbin.social 39 points 10 months ago (8 children)

I boggles the mind, this image of god nonsense. If we are made in gods image then gods image also includes Meth addicts and sexual offenders? God must be one crazy bugger.

[–] voracitude@lemmy.world 33 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

God must be one crazy bugger

You've seen a platypus, right?

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[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 77 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Oppressive theist group argues amongst itself about wha their imaginary friend in the sky wants.

[–] underisk@lemmy.ml 34 points 10 months ago

They don’t care what it wants. They care how they can frame what they want to seem like what it wants. What they want is pretty clearly spelled out here: more babies.

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 17 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Oppressive theist group argues amongst itself about wha their imaginary friend in the sky wants.

Maybe they could exclusively focus on that for a while and get back to us if they ever come to an agreement on whose religion is the only correct one?

Meanwhile the rest of us could get on with the business of progressing society without their constant interference.

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[–] Omnificer@lemmy.world 60 points 10 months ago (2 children)

As horrendous as this ruling is, I'm also pissed at the pro-forced birthers that are upset by this ruling. It's so intellectually dishonest to object to this ruling when it uses the same justifications they use to oppose abortion.

These people pick issues to be passionate on but never actually put in the effort to research. And not just whether their position makes any sense, but what the downstream effects of the position would mean.

The politicians who write these anti-abortion laws are even more lazy. This is literally their job and they should have seen this coming. They could have put in exceptions for IVF from the get-go but they didn't, because they are more interested in winning points than writing effective legislation.

[–] billiam0202@lemmy.world 18 points 10 months ago (1 children)

They could have put in exceptions for IVF from the get-go but they didn't, because they are more interested in winning points than writing effective legislation.

You can't square that circle. If you codify your religious myth that "life begins at conception" into law in order to ban abortions, then you also have to outlaw IVF by the very nature of the procedure.

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[–] TransplantedSconie@lemm.ee 10 points 10 months ago

But they do want to outlaw it. They just didn't want everyone to know until AFTER the election. That way no one could do anything to stop it.

[–] KillerTofu@lemmy.world 45 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Unfortunately any theology shouldn’t impact lawmaking.

[–] orclev@lemmy.world 28 points 10 months ago

That statement is rather ambiguous as it could be read to mean it's unfortunate that theology can't impact lawmaking, or that it's unfortunate that theology is impacting lawmaking. Theology shouldn't impact lawmaking and the fact that it is is the problem. Republicans have been steadily chipping away at separation of church and state for decades now and we're seeing the impact.

Any hint that a lawmaker is letting religious beliefs dictate their legislation should be an automatic disqualification from office. Politicians shouldn't even be allowed to mention their religion while campaigning. Instead it's becoming de rigueur for politicians to affirm their faith on a regular basis, and we regularly have politicians citing religious beliefs in debates about legislation.

[–] Kraven_the_Hunter@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The only part of your comment that I disagree with is "unfortunately".

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[–] engityra@kbin.social 42 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

As someone who has two living IVF babies, 8 frozen embryos remaining, and is also Christian, this line struck a particularly strong chord:

"Nobody understands more that an embryo is not a child, than the person yearning for that embryo to be a child."

[–] DacoTaco@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Knowing multiple people who have gone through IVF procedures, and have had it fail time and time again, i felt that as well. They were heartbroken, time and time again.

One lf them has a child on the way, and the other has stopped trying, for those who wonder :)

[–] rustydrd@sh.itjust.works 40 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Who could've foreseen that restricting reproductive rights could go both ways?

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[–] MagicShel@programming.dev 39 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Can I just ask why more babies being born is seen as a moral good? I'm dumbfounded because I've honestly never in fifty years heard this talking point before.

[–] tacosplease@lemmy.world 44 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It's really this simple. The bible says "Be fruitful and multiply"

[–] KingOfSleep@lemmy.ca 39 points 10 months ago (1 children)

When the line "be fruitful and multiply" was first written there were fewer humans on the planet than now live in Houston.

[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 18 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Ehhh, a bit more than Houston. By 2000 BCE there were 20,000,000 humans on the planet, though I believe the majority of those were in China. Genesis was written between 1500-1200 BCE.

[–] pacmondo@sh.itjust.works 38 points 10 months ago (10 children)

A bunch of white people in the united states are worried about birth rates because immigrant birth rates are high whereas white birth rates are on the decline. They're worried about white people becoming a minority because even though if you asked them they would say no, they know that minorities are treated poorly here.

[–] RattlerSix@lemmy.world 27 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Yep. It's called "replacement theory" and it's a core belief among racist organizations like Nazis, the Aryan nation and the KKK. It's also talked about constantly on Fox News and other right wing media.

[–] 4am@lemm.ee 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Oh for sure, but the problem is they’re preaching is subtly and if you were’t already on alert that it’s bullshit, it can end up normalizing for some people since it’s not usually framed as “white vs black/brown” but as “ Americans vs enemies”, which sounds a lot less racially charged to mega normies who pay more attention to football and soap operas than they do to politics.

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[–] ThatFembyWho@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 10 months ago

This is also behind the trans panic and concurrent anti-LGBTQ legislation in conservative states.

Sure, they'll package it with scripture and moralizing, but in the end? It's all about fear.

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[–] PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@lemmy.ml 9 points 10 months ago

Because a man in a book said something about going forth and multiplying

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[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 36 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Yesterday's Last Week Tonight showed Tommy Tubervile making that realization in real time. It was pretty incredible.

[–] SkybreakerEngineer@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Would that be the same guy who had trouble grasping the concept of "you don't actually need to swear on a bible" live on air?

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Possibly. He's extremely stupid.

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[–] fuzzywombat@lemmy.world 36 points 10 months ago (4 children)

What they could go after next:

  • Same sex marriage
  • Gay sex
  • Porn
  • Contraception
  • Vasectomy
  • Divorce
  • Interracial marriage
[–] Introversion@kbin.social 13 points 10 months ago

What they ~~could~~ will go after next:

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 10 points 10 months ago

They already are. And have been for a very long time.

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[–] skozzii@lemmy.ca 20 points 10 months ago

Maybe they should have learned the complete definition of abortion before banning it

This people are so stupid and they make our laws.

[–] Wooster@startrek.website 13 points 10 months ago (1 children)

"I think the biggest concerns are that people elsewhere forget about us and they think, 'Oh they're just the conservative state, and they're all country bumpkins. Don't worry it will never happen here.'

"And the next thing you know, it is happening in other states that are ultra-conservative."

[–] Bassman1805@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago (1 children)

As a progressive in Texas...fuckin YEAH. Some of us are trying to bring reality back and it's really annoying to get lumped in with the crazies.

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[–] MonsiuerPatEBrown@reddthat.com 11 points 10 months ago

Life is about navigating one's principles versus one's realities.

Xians do exceedingly badly at this in the meta-modern world.

[–] doublejay1999@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago

Gotta Love an argument about what god would want while people suffer.

Feel sorry for those caught up in this and I hope some have a light bulb moment.

[–] DigitalTraveler42@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

Leopard's are feasting on faces rn.

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