this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2023
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Lemmy.World Announcements

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Lemmy World outages (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by lwadmin@lemmy.world to c/lemmyworld@lemmy.world
 

Hello there!

It has been a while since our last update, but it's about time to address the elephant in the room: downtimes. Lemmy.World has been having multiple downtimes a day for quite a while now. And we want to take the time to address some of the concerns and misconceptions that have been spread in chatrooms, memes and various comments in Lemmy communities.

So let's go over some of these misconceptions together.

"Lemmy.World is too big and that is bad for the fediverse".

While one thing is true, we are the biggest Lemmy instance, we are far from the biggest in the Fediverse. If you want actual numbers you can have a look here: https://fedidb.org/network

The entire Lemmy fediverse is still in its infancy and even though we don't like to compare ourselves to Reddit it gives you something comparable. The entire amount of Lemmy users on all instances combined is currently 444,876 which is still nothing compared to a medium sized subreddit. There are some points that can be made that it is better to spread the load of users and communities across other instances, but let us make it clear that this is not a technical problem.

And even in a decentralised system, there will always be bigger and smaller blocks within; such would be the nature of any platform looking to be shaped by its members. 

"Lemmy.World should close down registrations"

Lemmy.World is being linked in a number of Reddit subreddits and in Lemmy apps. Imagine if new users land here and they have no way to sign up. We have to assume that most new users have no information on how the Fediverse works and making them read a full page of what's what would scare a lot of those people off. They probably wouldn't even take the time to read why registrations would be closed, move on and not join the Fediverse at all. What we want to do, however, is inform the users before they sign up, without closing registrations. The option is already built into Lemmy but only available on Lemmy.ml - so a ticket was created with the development team to make these available to other instance Admins. Here is the post on Lemmy Github.

Which brings us to the third point:

"Lemmy.World can not handle the load, that's why the server is down all the time"

This is simply not true. There are no financial issues to upgrade the hardware, should that be required; but that is not the solution to this problem.

The problem is that for a couple of hours every day we are under a DDOS attack. It's a never-ending game of whack-a-mole where we close one attack vector and they'll start using another one. Without going too much into detail and expose too much, there are some very 'expensive' sql queries in Lemmy - actions or features that take up seconds instead of milliseconds to execute. And by by executing them by the thousand a minute you can overload the database server.

So who is attacking us? One thing that is clear is that those responsible of these attacks know the ins and outs of Lemmy. They know which database requests are the most taxing and they are always quick to find another as soon as we close one off. That's one of the only things we know for sure about our attackers. Being the biggest instance and having defederated with a couple of instances has made us a target.  

"Why do they need another sysop who works for free"

Everyone involved with LW works as a volunteer. The money that is donated goes to operational costs only - so hardware and infrastructure. And while we understand that working as a volunteer is not for everyone, nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. As a volunteer you decide how much of your free time you are willing to spend on this project, a service that is also being provided for free.

We will leave this thread pinned locally for a while and we will try to reply to genuine questions or concerns as soon as we can.

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[–] SpeedLimit55@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Thanks for the update and keep up the good work! It seems like reddit went down a few times a week regularly for years. I have to think that some state sponsored actors are responsible for some of this. I’m sure that some topics being discussed here are not in line with the values of many regimes.

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[–] Buelldozer@lemmy.today 6 points 1 year ago

It's a shame you are having to go through this but it was bound to happen to an instance sooner or later. It's better that it happen to a large instance with the time, talent, and money to work through the challenges because this kind of consistent attack would bury any smaller instance pretty quickly.

With that said is there anything that users can do to help?

[–] MrSilkworm@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

keep doing what you're doing. If it makes any difference, I'm with you guys and I appreciate what you do to keep this place running

[–] andrewth09@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

The Great Lemmy Wars

[–] kamikazow@mastodon.social 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

@lwadmin Lemmy developers have features hardcoded for their own instance? WTF?

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[–] Resol@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Guess it's time to create an alt account on a different instance

[–] Hoxton@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Thanks for all your amazing work! I know just enough about SQL to know I know next nothing, but could someone intelligent explain how databases are publicly accessible for anyone to be able to make queries?

[–] static_motion@programming.dev 5 points 1 year ago

They're not, what the attackers are most likely doing is just repeating some regular operation that they know is very costly to the database. It could be something as simple as just spamming the upvote button, for example. Write a script to do that frequently enough and boom, instance taken down.

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[–] derrg@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Thanks for the update and the work you do! Lemmy.world introduced me to the Fediverse and it’s been awesome watching the site grow.

[–] wolfcatreader@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago
[–] Ackward@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It's difficult to fix and not without changes in the code. Most solutions involve fixing those heavy SQL. Tuning them, caching them in redis or memcached or refactor the whole process from scratch.

Thinking on the DDoS part, implement short circuits so reaching those queries must follow a session pattern. It doesn't stop it but you force those script kiddies to make real connections. If they are anonymous then all the heavy queries should be cached due to lack of custom vars. If not, it's a matter of identifying users and banning them automatically.

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[–] fox2263@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Are you guys using a load balancer at all? How about a tool like CrowdSec?

I use that and the nginx Bad Bot Blocker to stop malicious shits on the sites I operate (medium-large e-commerce) to great success. We used to get scraped heavily by competitors but now they get the middle finger.

I presume you have fail2ban too?

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[–] MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Thanks for the hard work!

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