Because Iran doesn't have a massive nuclear weapons stockpile.
this post was submitted on 16 Apr 2024
491 points (97.5% liked)
World News
39151 readers
3944 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
The last few years have shown that any nation that wants to be taken seriously needs a capable nuclear arsenal. Literally nothing else matters.
Yep. Which is why the liberal "international rules based world order" is nothing but a scam at this point. To many countries the only line of defense against getting invaded by a major nuclear power is having a capable nuclear arsenal themselves.
This. This is what it boils down to. This is why Pakistan and India keep getting away with the shit they pull along with all other nuclear nations. The moment Iran claims nuclear capable, “restraint” will be shown. With the amount of back channel communication that’s been happening between the US and Iran over the Gaza and Israel situation, it’s very likely they already have shown their hand and ability to be nuclear, and therefore the calculus is now extremely complex compared to something like Iraq and Afghanistan.
This also explains why Iran demonstrated and telegraphed their attack the way they did and the US agreed to it, despite the “Iran is the devil” rhetoric being perpetuated worldwide.
Hate to say it, but might is right and has always been.
Edit: To add, if they admit they are nuclear capable publicly, they are inviting more sanctions and another escalation which is the last thing they need given the state of their economy. They will also be on the back foot because Israel gets the moral high ground for being right about their nuclear ambitions.
Your interpretation sounds pretty likely to me. I'd guess if they get nukes, they'll go Israeil's way and will newer admit to it publicy.
Kind of weird everyone needs a thesis on this. It's literally why everyone wants a nuke. No one's going to attack a nuclear power. Ukraine wouldn't be in the position they're in if they kept their nukes.
100%. There are fewer bigger security mistakes than giving up nukes. It’s a case study of why you shouldn’t just trust “diplomacy”.
There's no black and white morality in real life. Even the chance to choose between actual totalitarianism and a hypocritical rules based world order is a massive privilege most don't get. Most of us are born into one or the other and that's that.
I completely agree with that but I fail to understand what you're trying to exactly say in this context The international rules based world order has way too many holes and now with the emerging of the multipolar world we will see a lot more countries willing to exploit these holes. Some of these will end up invading others. That's why many countries with aspirations to becoming a regional power will always invest in nuclear capabilities.
I'm being an apologist for the "not actual totalitarians" here. I like the idea of a rules based international system a lot more than I like the idea of dictatorships, and I'm fortunate to have even these poor options.
I fail to understand what the system of governance (parliamentary republic, one party system, or whatever) has to do with how the world is run, or better said what the protocols on handling situations and relationships between nation states have to do with how those countries are ran politically or economically.
With that being said, don't forget that the "not actual totalitarians" here don't necessarily have a problem with supporting or installing totalitarian regimes as long as it benefits them.
Countries should start building satellites that can drop rods from god instead. It polluted the environment less than our ancient nuclear weaponry and looks cooler
What would Russia's response be if NATO countries defended Ukraine with missile and drones shot down over Kiev, Levin, Odesa. Not sure they would do anything.
They'd probably not do much, but we don't know that for sure. It could also pull NATO into a direct conflict with Russia.
And noone is particularly keen on finding out where exactly the border lies for retaliation by Russia.
So best we can do right now is provide Ukraine with the military support they need, without getting directly involved in the conflict ourselves.
We're in for, what? $150B already? I don't think Russian nukes are what's holding up Ukraine funding in Congress.
The Rightwing memelords have spent the last two years insisting Ukrainian military aid is tied to Hunter Biden's cocaine dick and now half of Congress is blacklisting the funding in hopes of pleasing the 4chan party base.
Funding? No. But with the Iranian drone/missile strike US and other allied forces were doing interceptions. That's not happening in Ukraine unless there are some dramatic escalations, right wing memelords or no.
But with the Iranian drone/missile strike US and other allied forces were doing interceptions.
From what analysis I've read, the Iranian strike largely landed in empty desert. It was intended as a show of force, not a provocative attack.
And one thing it showed that the US and Israel genuinely struggle with is that Iran can launch a $100 missile that US/Israel needs a $10,000 defensive rocket to knock down. Yeah, they got 99% of their targets. But they exhausted a fortune to achieve it.
Ukraine has the same problem with Russia. They have to expend enormous amounts of defensive weaponry to counter an incoming Russian strike. And Russia can simply wear them down by targeting over a large border and at a long range.
That’s not happening in Ukraine unless there are some dramatic escalations, right wing memelords or no.
Because Russia and Iran are operating as war-time at-cost economies, while the US and Israel are running their militaries as for-profit private enterprises, the scale and scope of operations they're capable of can eclipse more advanced nations simply because they aren't running every weapons purchase through a dozen middle men.
Ukraine tried to operate as a war-time at-cost economy, but the Russians were too good at targeting their domestic factories and munitions plants. So now they're out of domestic weaponry and forced to rely on foreign exports.
Israel doesn't have this problem which - paradoxically - makes them a better market for US arms sales (they've got more money to spend and they can afford to spend it at market rate rather than cost).
If Dems retake the House, they'll start re-gearing the war economy to be at-cost rather than for-profit. Republicans won't. But that's what's really at stake here.
Doesn't mean we couldn't send interceptor rockets to Ukraine. We didn't bomb Iran we just intercepted their missiles and drones.
Or Israel and Iran are both mentioned in the Bible and the apocalyptic Christians in the charge of the West only care about that?
Iran isn't directly mentioned. Vague terms like "the North" appear, and historically many American evangelicals have identified the USSR with it, because that was the geopolitical bogeyman of the day. I've had older evangelicals insist to me that Russia borders Israel as a result.
Iran's more plausible than Russia, but if we pretend for a moment it's not all some desert guy's mushroom trip it could just as easily be Turkey.
Russia borders Israel
I guess if you want to lean hard into Syria as a Russian client state... maybe?
Although, the truly Big Brain move is to assert the Bible is talking about the Godless Protestants of Europe.
That's not the reason.
Dear Ukrainians, if you wanted unconditional support maybe you should have been mentioned in the Bible.
Lol, you don't know how close to the truth you are. 80% of Israel are Ashkenazi, literal meaning is German. From Khazaria a kingdom in what is now the Ukraine. They converted to Judaism enmasse. Did I say this, no, a Jewish professor from Tel Aviv University did.
Best CK3 steppe nomads hands down
It's a little more complicated than that in actuality but us citified folk simply can't handle the idea of people just like, moving their whole clan a couple hundred miles away whenever they feel like it
Maybe if we said the Russians aren't shooting missiles, they're shooting planes full of pregnant women trying to get abortions the GOP would finally get on board with helping.
Downing a plane full of women going to an abortion clinic to stop those abortions sounds plausible for GOP, according to what I learned on the internet.
But they're already helping the Russians. Why would they need more motivation?
We tell the GOP that Russia is launching planes full of pregnant women wanting abortions towards Ukraine. The GOP would then go all-in on intercepting those planes. Except in reality those aren't planes; they're Russian cruise missiles heading to Ukrainian cities.
Zelensky's tweet full text:
The entire world witnessed allied action in the skies above Israel and neighboring countries. It demonstrated how truly effective unity in defending against terror can be when it is based on sufficient political will.
Israel, the United States, the United Kingdom, France, and Jordan acted together and with maximum efficiency.
Together, they prevented terror from prevailing. And they are working together, and in coordination with others, to prevent further escalation.
Israel is not a NATO member, so no action, such as triggering Article 5, was required. And no one was dragged into the war. They simply contributed to the protection of human life.
"Shaheds" in the skies above Ukraine sound identical to those over the Middle East. The impact of ballistic missiles, if they are not intercepted, is the same everywhere.
European skies could have received the same level of protection long ago if Ukraine had received similar full support from its partners in intercepting drones and missiles. Terror must be defeated completely and everywhere, not more in some places and less in others.
I thank everyone in the world, every leader and state, who truly assists us with air defense and missiles necessary to protect our skies, as well as training our pilots on F-16s. All of this already works and will continue to work to save lives.
However, we can now see how unity can work truly a hundred percent, and how almost a hundred percent of “Shaheds” and missiles can be intercepted. We will discuss it with our partners.
It's worth supplementing this with his earlier statement from 2 days ago:
“Ukraine condemns Iran’s attack on Israel using ‘Shahed’ drones and missiles. We in Ukraine know very well the horror of similar attacks by Russia, which uses the same ‘Shahed’ drones and Russian missiles, the same tactics of mass air strikes,”
“It is critical that the United States Congress make the necessary decisions to strengthen America’s allies at this critical time,” he says.
Problem is, not everyone in the United States has the same allies.
Also that the US has been at war for the past 20+ years and has very little to show for it's efforts. People are war fatigued and want things sorted out at home because domestically things are terrible.
That is a very good question. And the answer is, sadly, that the west doesn't care that much about Ukraine.
Maybe Ukraine has to violate some human rights before they're taken more serious. Works for Israel.
Their mistake was giving up the nukes in their possession in the 90s in exchange for worthless security guarantees. No other nation should ever be so stupid.
They should have joined NATO
I don't know if that was on the table at that point.
It wasn't.
Specifically they have to mass murder people of a non-white etnicity to get the full support of the Western power elites.
It's the etnic cleansing of non-whites that really makes it irresistable to certain elites in the West.
It’s obviously because of nukes.
Another part of the answer is geographical. Jordan helped Israel intercept because their airspace is between Iran and Israel.
The distance between Russia and Ukraine is far shorter.
Yeah. The American government cares more about Israel than its own citizens.
That's why we still give Israel our full support despite it being one of the main reasons for the 9/11 attacks.
Because NSO Group is an Israeli company.
It's interesting they choose not to look away on the conflict comparison game...Specially when their role as a country invaded by a much bigger one wielding nuclear weapons would match a lot better that of...Palestine. But they chose to compare themselves with poor Israel.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Dear Ukraine, the difference is that America wants a war with Iran, whereas it is happy to have a proxy war with Russia. Give the opponent just enough to fend off an attack but not enough for victory.
The war with Iran is meant to be the defining war for this generation. There has not been a single generation of Americans who have not been involved in war.
The US is perfectly happy to have Israel as a proxy against Iran.
view more: next ›