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Teardown of Huawei's new phone shows China's chip breakthrough (www.channelnewsasia.com)
submitted 1 year ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world
27 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Huawei Technologies and China's top chipmaker SMIC have built an advanced 7-nanometre processor to power its latest smartphone, according to a teardown report by analysis firm TechInsights.

Huawei's Mate 60 Pro is powered by a new Kirin 9000s chip that was made in China by Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp (SMIC), TechInsights said in the report shared with Reuters on Monday.

Huawei started selling its Mate 60 Pro phone last week. The specifications provided advertised its ability to make satellite calls, but offered no information on the power of the chipset inside.

The processor is the first to utilise SMIC's most advanced 7nm technology and suggests the Chinese government is making some headway in attempts to build a domestic chip ecosystem, the research firm said.

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[–] jeena@jemmy.jeena.net 36 points 1 year ago (1 children)

When I look at https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3233166/while-under-us-sanctions-where-did-huawei-get-advanced-chips-its-latest-mate-60-pro-smartphone then explanation #3 sounds the most probable, that those are chips they stockpiled before TSMC cut them off.

This would also explain why they're not making a big deal of it. If China was able to do it themselves that would have been such a big deal and the propaganda machine would be spinning. But they refuse to give the full specs now and don't say how they got it etc.

[–] MataVatnik@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

TechInsights said SMIC used existing equipment and its second-generation 7-nm process to manufacture the 5G-capable Kirin 9000s for Huawei

Huawei was known to have been stockpiling chips from its HiSilicon unit before TSMC cut ties to comply with US sanctions

From what I understand China does not know how to make their own lithography equipment and they had to be imported from abroad. It's specifically one of the things the sanctions are targeting. The second paragraph is interesting and it answers a question I had earlier about how they were sourcing their silicone. In the <9nm regime its really important that the silicone is amorphous, if it's crystalline then lithography will fail since the edges it will etch will be jagged from the crystalline structure of the silicone. So my guess is they can't make their own silicone either, at least not for etching 7nm chips.

[–] chaogomu@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Here's a bit of geopolitics for you, Taiwan can make lithography equipment, which is why China has been so aggressive about Taiwan lately.

[–] BlackOak@mander.xyz 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I don't believe this is true, though I'm certainly no expert on the subject. Taiwan Semiconductor is the largest manufacturer of the chips, but they use lithography equipment manufactured by the Dutch company ASML.

[–] laylawashere44@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 1 year ago

Yeah, the OOP comment doesn't really make sense. China is being more aggressive about Taiwan because nationalist drum beating is a good distraction from the economic tensions at home and because Biden has been more explicit about the US defending Taiwan than any president before him.

[–] grabyourmotherskeys@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Take a look at the number of people who live in China, then look at their success at reverse engineering and copying technological products, then ask yourself what a couple of thousand of the best engineers they have could do with an unlimited budget and several years. It's it really inconceivable that they could copy and manufacture this equipment?

[–] Dead_or_Alive@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It isn’t inconceivable but it is highly unlikely that China was able to design and manufacture their own chips. Chip manufacturing requires multiple inputs from a supply chain that is thousands of vendors long. These vendors are usually small and specialize in making a single component of what goes into the chip making process and there normally aren’t other companies that also duplicate that item. We haven’t even gone into the specialties needed to design the chips or produce the foundries needed to make them.

There is no single country capable of completing every step of the process from design to tooling to manufacturing inputs. Japan, Taiwan, Netherlands and the US are all major players for high end chips but no single one of them can complete the entire process on their own. The Biden administration managed to get all of these players to agree to lock China out of the mid to high end chip market. Biden also made it illegal for IS Nationals on pain of loosing citizenship to help China design chips. So China not only doesn’t have the expertise to call on, they are also locked out of this ecosystem of vendors from these countries.

Could China do it… possibly they’ve thrown a lot of money and have a lot of failed chip companies to show for it. One of the established tech Chinese majors may have pulled it off.

More than likely they completed work on a chip that was in the finishing stages and had the majority of inputs on hand before the embargo was enacted. I’d wait and see if they start pumping out a large volume of these chips then I’d give them credit for a major accomplishment on manufacturing. If they can continue to design new chips without any foreign help then they will have pulled it off in my book. Until then I’m going to have serious doubts.

[–] grabyourmotherskeys@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Thank you for your insightful reply.

[–] rbesfe@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago

ASML (Dutch company) are the ones making the most advanced lithography machines right now. Taiwanese industry no doubt has some expertise, but I would guess it's mainly around building and running the fab not necessarily the intricate workings of the machines.

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

Once China has semiconductor manufacturing abilities comparable to Taiwan's, one of the major deterrents to its invading Taiwan is removed. And outside of Taiwan it seems other countries are largely struggling to modernize and scale up their own semiconductor manufacturing, notably including the USA. China might see it as quite attractive to invade Taiwan and wipe out the West's technology base, thereby ending up with the world's most advanced manufacturing in China. Other countries would either have to suffer without computers or buy Chinese chips, and China would have de facto control of computing around the world, at least for a while.

[–] Telodzrum@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

“Once China has semiconductor manufacturing abilities to Taiwan’s” is a long way off, if ever. China has demonstrated a complete lack of aptitude and technical prowess in this field. For the foreseeable future they are going to be stuck importing what they can from Taiwan and unable to change that reality because the island state is protected by the most powerful military in the region.

[–] MataVatnik@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The thing is they do not, they don't know how to make the equipment or the materials. It's like if they bought a disassembled bike from Amazon, and then claim to be a bike manufacturer after putting it together. It would take espionage and decades of development to reach Taiwans level. I said this in another comment, this stuff is not developed overnight, it's a monumental undertaking. India tried and failed and the US is now spending billions to bring fabs to the US and they will have to do it with the cooperation of Taiwan and it will take years.

[–] bobman@unilem.org 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

one of the major deterrents to its invading Taiwan is removed.

You mean one of the major benefits? The biggest reason China wants Taiwan is to be competitive in semi-conductors.

Not sure why you people keep making up these narratives. It's painfully obvious to anyone who's paying attention.

[–] severien@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There's no way China gets TSMC facilities intact.

[–] bobman@unilem.org 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Right. An invasion of Taiwan would mean a war between US and China.

[–] severien@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Likely yes, but that's not what I was hinting at. If it looked like China is going to be successful in taking Taiwan, all the TSMC facilities would get blown up.

[–] TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

Yeap, the important infrastructure is really the people. I imagine if the US saw something a kin to Russia's mobilization to the border with Ukraine, there'd be a noticeable influx of Taiwanese immigrants coming to America.

Plus, I really can't foresee an actual invasion across the Formosa that would leave much infrastructure intact. It's basically an island fortress where your choices of combat terrains are urban or pacific forrest/jungle. Taking the island without leveling it first would be a prolonged blood bath.

[–] severien@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

There are some holes in your story. Samsung and Intel are still way ahead of the SMIC.

China produced some chips, but they don't have a good way to scale it up. To produce these chips they used ASML lithography machines which they can't buy anymore.

and China would have de facto control of computing around the world, at least for a while.

This is not going to happen ...

[–] Moonrise2473@feddit.it 6 points 1 year ago

Another deterrent is giving up any trading with Western countries and giving the crown of "factory of the world" to India which would do anything to get that.

Nobody with a brain would intentionally choose to only trade with Russia, Iran and North Korea in exchange of a relatively tiny island. (Well, Putin did something like that, but I said "someone with a brain")

[–] baseless_discourse@mander.xyz 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is exactly why western country wouldnt let China invade Taiwan. The real threat comes when the west can get chips without Taiwan.

[–] Bipta@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Unless Trump is president and they just give him a bribe.

[–] severien@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Trump started this recent confrontation with China. It's one issue which has bipartisan support among both politicians and population. Just surrendering Taiwan would be too stupid even for Trump.

[–] Zehzin@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not here nor there but Kirin 9000 is a sick name

[–] xep@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Someone at Mediatek thought so too, they have the Dimensity 9000.

[–] purahna@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This shouldn't be too surprising, China has had 7nm process capability for at least two years now https://www.tomshardware.com/news/china-first-7nm-gpu-heads-to-production

[–] pivot_root@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

It would be surprising if China was using domestic fabrication technology.

On Wednesday, [Tianshu Zhixin] confirmed our suspicion that BI was made using TSMC's 7nm FinFET process.

Or if it was... you know, actually available to purchase.