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If you believe what Janeway did to Tuvix was wrong, does Spock get a pass? (startrek.website)

submitted 2 years ago by GuyFleegman@startrek.website to c/daystrominstitute@startrek.website

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I want to live!

- EvilKirk's last words

Whatever else you want to say about EvilKirk, it's pretty clear that he didn't want to be merged back into the single Kirk. Despite this, there is no shortage of reasons why it was a good idea to merge the Kirks: the Enterprise needed its CO back, GoodKirk wanted to do it, and it seems possible that the strain of remaining split would have eventually killed EvilKirk anyways. However, the fact remains that EvilKirk did not consent to the procedure which ended his existence.

Clearly the circumstances here are quite different and there's basically no argument to be made that allowing EvilKirk to continue to exist would benefit any involved party, EvilKirk included. But for the purposes of this comparison, the only fact that really matters is that EvilKirk was just as passionate about his desire to continue existing as Tuvix was.

Yet—and it's obvious where I'm going with this—"Spock murdered EvilKirk" is not a meme.

So what gives? Did Spock murder EvilKirk or not? If yes, why does he get a pass while Janeway is condemned?

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[–] vegivamp@feddit.nl 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I think that's an oversimplification of what GP was getting at.

Tuvix was an accident, knew and accepted that fact, and initially was voluntarily assisting in finding a way to undo it. He seems more than capable of grasping, even at that early point in his existence, that undoing the accident means the end of him.

GP made the argument that his demeanor started changing as he got a name, a job, responsibilities etc. All the superficial hallmarks of a "person" in the very limited environment of the ship.

Nobody is saying he wasn't a person from the start, but getting assigned all the trappings of what he saw to be individual persons undoubtedly started him thinking of himself as a person as well instead of just an accident to be corrected.

[–] vegivamp@feddit.nl 2 points 2 years ago

I'm going to add to that, as this post made me rewatch it as we speak 🙂

The two very first lines Tuvix speaks, when challenge 6 for his identity, are "I am luitenant Tuvok. And I am Neelix."

He really didn't realize he was a person yet - he thought he was two persons.

Had you asked, in that initial time, whether he would like to be split up, I'm sure he would have answered in the positive.

Of course he's allowed to change his mind as realization grows, so the whole thing remains a dicey proposition, but imo it just reinforces the fact that it was Janeway who triggered his (becoming aware of his own) personhood.