politics
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
view the rest of the comments
HRT is gender affirming care and is not a ‘sex change’ which is outdated and offensive.
It’s odd that you’re trying to ‘debunk’ what you see as a bigoted term and you’ve come full circle to something even worse.
You should look up the difference between sex and gender before you continue arguing down this route.
I never said HRT was "sex change" though I would argue it potentially changes your sex, based on some definition of sex.
I did in another comment refer to a sex change surgery, which may be what you're referring to. Yeah, that has other names, but the point of that comment was the language is something we're working backwards to, and not something we should work forward from, unlike what you implied with your comment that was on. Whatever it's called, that's not an argument for what effect it has. We change the names of things as we evolve our understanding. We don't understand based on what things are called.
I know the difference between sex and gender. My point has been consistently that sex is hazy. It is not a binary, and calling someone "biologically male" who does not want to be called that is a snobby way to be an asshole, particularly because "biologically male" doesn't mean much, if anything. Assigned gender at birth is clear and there are no questions, so use that. If they're undergoing HRT and/or gender reassignment surgery, their biology is no longer that of their birth, so they are not "biologically male." Do you agree with this, or are you going to continue arguing that you were totally right the whole time? If you think you were right, which part of biology is the sex identifier? You haven't answered that.
I have already very clearly articulated my answer to this. Go back up a couple of comments and read it again if you need to.
Then you are arguing against the prevailing medical and scientific opinions, gender affirming care can assist with aligning secondary sex characteristics but does not change the patients sex.
It has long been an argument of the trans community that gender and sex are different, which Im not disputing at all but you are trying to make unclear.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/feminizing-hormone-therapy/about/pac-20385096
For your convenience you can check the difference between primary and secondary sex characteristics here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_characteristics
The sum of them does not make a binary definition of sex, nor does it make an unchanging one, as I've said before. If you want an unchanging binary definition you need to define what that would refer to.
I agree, gender is not sex. However, sex is not just something you're born with, as we've clearly seen with intersex characteristics and also being able to change the body with HRT.
I know the difference between primary and secondary sex characteristics. I have said nothing that should indicate otherwise. You're just trying to be the "well actually..." person. Obviously primary sex characteristics are not the definition of sex. If they were then ~~men~~ males who have their testicals removed wouldn't be ~~men~~ males and ~~women~~ females who have their overies removed wouldn't be ~~women~~ females. You agree that's wrong, correct? (I know, asking these questions is pointless because you just ignore them, but hopefully they make you think.)
Sex is many things, which includes things effected by HRT and surgery. Saying "biological sex" to refer to sex assigned at birth is dismissive of this, right? (Not to mention it's totally wrong if we agree sex many characteristics.) If so, we should avoid the term, correct? It's not the same as gender assigned at birth, right?
Edit: men => males, women => females, because I could forsee the "technically..." coming.
Artificial changes to a body are just that, artificial.
Inserting an rfid chip under my skin doesn’t make me a credit card. Taking some hormones doesn’t make you female.
This incessant boundary shifting and virtue signalling that everyone must play along with the artificial and pretend it is reality will never see broad public acceptance.
Changing gender is real, changing sex is not and you could go ahead and provide a definition of sex that is holistic and entirely changeable with current technology if you disagree.
It's not artificial. The hormones aren't native to the person, but it's not changing their body by replacing components with mechanical things. Your body has different amounts of testosterone and estrogen as is. It's just changing those amounts artificially, but the changing the body makes following that are natural biological processes.
In your analogy though, how would giving you the function go a credit card not make you a credit card? If the effect is identical, then how are you not that thing? Sure, you'd also be other things, but that doesn't exclude being another. If you have the outcome of being able to purchase things using your credit account, you are in effect a credit card. If you have the outcome of male attributes, you are in effect a male.
Again, you're arguing for some strict binary "biological" definition of sex. The primary sex characteristics, that you seem so fond of, can be removed. If this is your requirement, what happens when these are removed? You dodged this and are implying an unchanging definition now, so primary sex characteristics are not the requirement? If not, what is and what effect does HRT play on it now?
And therefore are artificial. Take them away and what happens? Secondary sex characteristics return to their baseline…. Mostly.
I provided you with my definition of biological sex. If you are so interested in continuing this discussion the least you could do is provide your definition as I requested.
I would still be a human, because changing one part does not change the whole.
A poor argument given that FTM cannot get real testes, again being artificially mimicked at best.
But not functionally replicated by artificial means. Also I haven’t based my definition of sex, or argument against sex change being possible, on primary sex characteristics.
You do seem fond of this ‘counter argument’ though. Shame its not counter to anything I have said.
I have only stated that changing secondary sex characteristics is not sufficient to change a persons sex.
Biological sex, as determined by a number of factors during development, is unchanging. Gender however can be changed.
Im surprised I have to repeat that at this point.