323
David DePape sentenced to life in prison for hammer attack on Paul Pelosi
(www.theguardian.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2024
323 points (99.1% liked)
politics
19127 readers
4511 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I also despise the prison industrial complex and prefer rehabilitation over punishment, but there's a point where losses need to be cut.
He doesn't seem remorseful, and he's not going to seek help when he believes he is justified in beating an elderly man with a hammer. At that point, what options are left? it's immoral to involuntarily institutionalize and forcibly medicate individuals, and even if it wasn't, that's a slippery slope you don't want to go down.
Why do you think it's immoral to involuntarily institutionalize but moral to lock them in a jail cell?
I never said that was moral either. I hold the stance that, despite the utter lack of most freedoms, at least you get to maintain some semblance of bodily autonomy while in prison.
On the other hand, forced institutionalization with involuntarily sedation and/or medication is directly violating bodily autonomy. We don't need to return to the days of deciding to "fix" people without their permission like we used to with transorbital lobotomies.
I don't know why you think there's more autonomy in a mental institution than prison, or why you keep bringing up forcing drugs and surgery on people like that's the only way to help people with mental health issues. Your stance is still not making sense from a moral standpoint.
Edit: just want to note that the first sentence of the comment above wasn't there when reply was written
Mental illness treatment and rehabilitation is the path forward, but it's not a one-size-fits all solution. I was more direct about this in my other comments: What do you do with people who don't want help and actively refuse to be rehabilitated?
Practically speaking:
You can't reintegrate them into society as they are.
You can't ship them off to an island in the southern hemisphere and wash your hands of them.
Morally speaking:
You can't execute them.
You can't lock them up.
You can't treat them against their will.
What now?
————————
The American prison industrial complex is a privatized slavery-for-profit feedback loop, yes. It's an atrocity that needs to be dismantled and replaced with a justice system with rehabilitation and reparation as its core tenets. But, the inevitable truth is that either prisons must exist in some form as the lesser of many evils, or you voluntarily choose to repeat the atrocities of our past.
I'm not arguing against treating and rehabiliting people who have made mistakes. I'm arguing that championing it as the solution to prisons is either an overly-optimistic pipedream, or a hypocritical display of indifference to the idea of involiable bodily autonomy.
You seem unable to separate rehabilitation / treatment for mental health from medical interventions and drugs.
What I'm arguing is that punishment is not justice. No person should have the right to dole out punishments to another. To think otherwise betrays a very authoritarian mindset.
I don't have a 500 page document detailing a new version of our justice system, partly because, as you correctly stated, there isn't a one size fits all solution. But I know whatever system that is should be focused on empathy and compassion, not making people pay for their misdeeds.
But even if I completely agreed with what you're saying, I would still think it's gross to cheer for anyone being sent to "an atrocity that needs to be dismantled and replaced", especially if it's for the rest of their lives.
You have to stop people from victimizing society and the kknds of folks who normally do so regularly ignore dialogue.
If someone rapes women you may not be able to fix them but you can be sure most of society won't be in danger while he is in prison.
I don't know if I agree with this tbh. Bad people deserve a chance to reform, but at a certain point they start deserving bad things.
Uh huh. Sure. Let's find out how much.
Ah, the answer was "not at all".
Okay.
Rehabilitation? Mental health care? All of the things that European countries do better than us?
But somehow in your book it's perfectly moral to lock them in a cage until they die? I'd take medication and institutionalization over being tortured to death any day.
Ah yes, the slippery slope of not throwing people away like pieces of trash. Would hate to fall down that one... /s
People who show up at peoples doors to torture and kill people don't deserve help
Rehabilitation and mental health care are only effective when the individual is receptive to it. This guy is brainwashed, but let's imagine that's just the tip of the iceberg: what if it's just a symptom of a greater issue like psychopathy, and he just doesn't want to be rehabilitated.
What, then? Let him have the chance to convince others going through their own rehabilitation to join the q-ult? Keep dragging him to appointments where he does nothing but reinforce his own delusions of grandeur? Forcefully sedate him? Put him in a straightjacket and padded cell, causing maddening isolation? Give him a fucking lobotomy against his will?
The world isn't sunshine and rainbows. Prison is a shit option, but it's a hell of a lot better than being rehabilitated by firing squad or 1940s quack medical procedures.