Yeahhhhh, once again the people you are slinging mud at did not vote for Trump. And please think about calling other people selfish assholes because they did not do as you did for the next (if there is one) election, it might help.

[–] 4grams@awful.systems 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Ok, so we’re at an impasse here. I do not find this line of thinking defensible and I do think this is the words of an asshole:

“Saving the nation from fascism and preserving their own rights, freedoms and lives in the process wasn't a good enough reason to speak to people like me with respect. And now they can burn for it. And they're going to blame me for it, just like they've blamed me for everything their entire lives.”

I’m in that exact same boat but I don’t give one single shit about not being thanked, nor for being blamed. Maybe it’s because I am a father and I don’t really live for myself but doesn’t matter because it’s not something that makes me feel bad. Men are a problem, men should do better, and they should do it because they are good, not because they deserve it, or they want thanks. Doing the good is the reward. My life’s guiding principal is the old Paul Wellstone canard: “we all do better when we all do better”. In the end, I’m just as selfish as everyone else because ultimately I’m after my own happiness and fascism, suffering, exploitation, cheating, etc. is antithetical to it.

I can already hear responses, yes both sides are terrible but one was UNDENIABLY far, far worse and we will face the same decision in the future so this ain’t a fucking team sport to me. I’ll pull the fucking trigger for satan himself if he’s going to maximize the good.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I don't see the words of an asshole, just a frustrated voter who taking the blame for something they voted to stop. If you read the quote you used you can see that they are calling out the problem they think cost the Dems the election, namely treating people like them with respect. They like anyone else expects to be treated with a bit of respect, and your response is to what? Prove them justified?

I’m in that exact same boat but I don’t give one single shit about not being thanked, nor for being blamed.

But you clearly do. I am not saying both sides are terrible (not sure why you are imagining the other half of a conversation), I am saying the US is in this mess partly due to this toxic bullshit about "Men are a problem, men should do better, and they should do it because they are good, not because they deserve it, or they want thanks."

There is only so much you can expect any demographic to do counter to their own interests before they do what you see above, give up and say fuck it. You are now going to double down and place blame on (lets see if I remember this right) frustrated reluctant Harris voters?

DO YOU WANT TO BE GOVERNED BY A FASCIST? BECAUSE THIS IS HOW YOU DO IT. (did it)

[–] 4grams@awful.systems 1 points 2 weeks ago

You don’t, I do. Maybe it’s because similar language was used in an attempted assault against me today..

People deserve respect because of actions, not transactions.

[–] 4grams@awful.systems 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I am hot, I am upset, but again, it’s pretty obvious what my target is here. It’s not just the folks who did this it’s the ones who are refusing to learn from it and in fact give in to the exact same problem that got us here.

“I won’t ever vote for a democrat again” is the same team bullshit that to us here. And bolstered by the revenge bullshit for not being grateful. That is TOXIC, and that is the sort of thinking that got us here.

This is the internet, we swear here.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It’s not just the folks who did this it’s the ones who are refusing to learn from it and in fact give in to the exact same problem that got us here.

Yes, this we agree on. To bad we think its different people who refuse to learn. After all you want people to do the same thing (swallowing pride and voting Dems) every 4 years over and over. It was not about being "grateful" it was and is about treating people like pre-villans and then getting mad when they don't support your cause.

But hey, if you want to alienate people, go right on ahead and turn on your former allies. I am sure it will never come up that you might need 15 million or so of them.

I can swear all I want, but you will not catch me calling someone "TOXIC" for not agreeing with me.

[–] 4grams@awful.systems 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

No, I do not want anyone to swallow pride for a particular party you dense moron. I have said repeatedly that you should vote for issues, and the greater good regardless of party. What I am arguing against is an asshole who said that because he wasn’t thanked enough that they can burn next time because he won’t vote for their team anymore.

Yeah, I’ve been an asshole myself here, I’m a random angry internet jerk who’s pissed off about the election, but to be frank more pissed off at the selfish sort of behavior that got us here. It’s not the democrats, it’s not the republicans, it’s not the Green Party, it’s the people who voted for them (and the specific people they voted for).

edit- listen. I don’t know any of you, I only know the words you type here, just as you only know mine. I am being an asshole, I realize that, but it’s the emotion I’m feeling and trying to portray. it’s also kind of intentional because he point I am trying to make is that hurt feelings should never be enough to convince anyone of anything. To all the actual people behind these posts, I fully realize that you are not these posts and am sorry if my assholishness has caused you to be upset.

I still believe what I’m saying, I’m still angry to read these sort of reactions. Maybe I’ve just realized that the parties never spoke for me, and that every vote I’ve ever cast has been one that required me to hold my nose to some degree. Votes should be for the greater good, for minimizing suffering of the most, not because the party made me personally feel special.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Glad you can see you can be an ass, just wanted to point out the guy you where arguing against is also a pissed off voter in the same place you are in right now. And you can blame the voters all you want but this is very much the democrats and republicans (the greens really did nothing) show. Working towards not having a fascist in power is a better use of your time (the all be it sloppy, point of the other guys comments) then getting mad at people like you.

[–] 4grams@awful.systems 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

this is very much the democrats and republicans (the greens really did nothing) show.

I disagree, dems, republicans, greens, etc., they do what they always do, try to amass as much power as they can. It’s up to us to look at those choices that we have and make a good one. Usually it’s fairly inconsequential, often time it’s not though, and so it’s ultimately up to us to be informed and make the best choice. Saying things like you will never vote for a party again, when they are just another side of the same dice, is the sort of thinking that we actively MUST avoid.

We have a broken system, but at least up until now, we had the ultimate power to change it. We sure did this time, I sincerely hope we can do it again. If so, I pray we ALL take it seriously.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

My dood, it is a two party system. There was never really a choice (like you said a VERY easy one). You got to ether vote for the ruling party or a fascist. I don't think anyone needed to be very informed. Local elections? oh research the hell out of those, at the national level? in the states? There was never really an option. Just at this point people picked the non option.

No US voter had the "ultimate" power to change anything, just two things to pick between. In this case they picked to tear it all down in a weird fascist way.

[–] 4grams@awful.systems 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

K, sorry, felt like you were defending the greens and wasn’t sure where you were going..

I agree completely. But there was one before the election, and one before that, and one before that. Nothing good ever happens at once, it takes long and gradual change. I’m with you on the no real choice this time around but despite that, we got it objectively wrong. Point is a vote ain’t enough, and I blame stupid, lazy, simple minded people for that.

Kamala wasn’t a savior, but if people understood that progress is incremental and hard, they wouldn’t have voted for turnip. I blame the system yes, but we should be smart enough to play the game. We’re about to get what we asked for.

Anyway. Again sorry for being a shithead, I’m most certainly blowing off steam. Again, a little triggered by what I felt was the thinking that got us here. But again, my words are directed at the words, not the people. I’m usually a lot nicer when I’m not facing looming fascism.

[–] M0oP0o@mander.xyz 1 points 2 weeks ago

Its a shit situation all around in this case. People are angry, and not without reason. I do hope that we can learn from it and earn a better place in the world, but I am also a pessimist so I too will get angry and likely not be helpful.