this post was submitted on 02 Dec 2024
64 points (98.5% liked)
Asklemmy
44123 readers
444 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
Search asklemmy ๐
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
So the open source community has a very clearly defined definition of "open" - open does not mean that you can just read the source code. Just reading helps with some trustworthiness, but in order to be afforded all of the protections and benefits of the word "open", they require some form of ability to fork the code, and to be able to do useful things with that fork. No fork = not open. There are a ton of good reasons for this that I won't dig into here but you can certainly find by looking up the free software foundation or the open source initiative.
Futo is considered "source available"
I don't see anything wrong with limiting the commercialization of your code. I don't agree that limiting someone from monetizing your code in a way you disagree with precludes them from "doing useful things" with a fork. Equating usefulness with commercialization seems implicitly capitalist and antithetical to FOSS. CMV.
There's nothing wrong per se with what FUTO is doing. They have the right to determine how people can use their code. What is wrong is trying to use the term "open source" which has a very clear meaning to try and win marketing brownie points among its user base when it does not actually follow that definition. It is misleading at best.
Basically: don't misuse the open source moniker for source-available projects.
The more accurate way to say that is, "open source" has a very clear meaning to a very specific set of people who agree with OSI's definition. But language evolves, they don't have a copyright on the term, more people have heard the term "open source" than have heard about the OSI, so "open source" means whatever most people believe it to mean.
Velcro can be upset when people call competitors' hook-and-loop technology Velcro, but the rest of the world don't even know they exist.
And philosophically, I think it's time OSI updates their definition to fit the times. As stated above, I think the guarantee of unfettered commercialization is antithetical to FOSS goals. And again, I'd be glad to be convinced otherwise.
The whole point of forkability is NOT for unfettered commercialization, it is a user protection. I as a user should be able to take any piece of software and modify it in any way I see fit, and then be able to contribute that back.
If you think that the OSI's definition has anything to do with commercialization (other than explicitly saying that commercializing source code is not prohibited), you have completely misunderstood what open source is about, full stop.
I apologize, I got your comment confused with the other person's who said the ability to commercialize is the important detail FUTO's license is missing. You had said, "they require some form of ability to fork the code, and to be able to do useful things with that fork" which the FUTO license does already explicitly allow, so I assumed by "and do useful things" you also meant "commercialize".
So yeah it sounds like we're in agreement, and the FUTO license is already reasonably "open source".
Does FUTO's license allow me to maintain my own fork under a different name to offer to fellow users, that is no longer under control of FUTO? I'm not selling (commercializing) it. If not, it is source-available.
It does allow this,
But hey, way to read the source material before explaining it to someone ;)