73
Should Climate Protesters Be Less Annoying?
(newrepublic.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 12 Aug 2023
73 points (84.1% liked)
Climate - truthful information about climate, related activism and politics.
5058 readers
193 users here now
Discussion of climate, how it is changing, activism around that, the politics, and the energy systems change we need in order to stabilize things.
As a starting point, the burning of fossil fuels, and to a lesser extent deforestation and release of methane are responsible for the warming in recent decades:
How much each change to the atmosphere has warmed the world:
Recommended actions to cut greenhouse gas emissions in the near future:
Anti-science, inactivism, and unsupported conspiracy theories are not ok here.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
No, but they should be coherent and meaningful. These fools (or possibly goons for oil companies) who attack paintings are only making environmentalism look utterly stupid. They are openly mocked by everybody because they're lashing out incoherently.
They're actively working against environmentalism. I really think they're bad, selfish, narcissistic, and stupid people. They don't care about the environment.
There is absolutely no reason to think their ridiculous behavior could possibly help the environment.
Read some books about how to do politics strategically and you’ll see why they do this
Your anger works in their favor
Doubt
When you vaguely tell somebody to read more it's because you have no actual argument.
There is no connection to environmental issues. They are doing this to look cool to their friends.
Well, if you want a suggestion: “Neither Vertical Nor Horizontal” by Rodrigo Nunes
I’m just tired of repeating the same stuff all over the web, I also wrote an article in Italian about it 😄
If you can't summarize your point, don't even bring it up.
I can, I don’t want to do it cause inevitably it would open up to questions that in a non summary would be already answered.
If you want to know more about complex topics don’t expect to learn them by reading hot takes on the internet.
If your entire thesis can be summarized by "hot take" then that tells me everything I need to know.
You haven't earned my trust enough to suggest a book. I consider these strategies to be worse than ineffectual. I consider them counterproductive. And you haven't described how they could be productive.
I guess sharing your knowledge is just too much work. The environment just isn't worth explaining things to people who are clearly making good faith conversation with you.
Didn’t seem like it ^^
Nah. It’s about a more effective use of the time to actually change the world. If you want answers, you got history and that book to read. There is no point in convincing you because, as I said, your anger works in favor of them.
And before someone adds the “but you are still answering” argument, well I’m answering when I have 2 minutes to write this stuff that is not as high effort as a clear explanation that would still open up to more and more and more questions :)
Of course it does. I've been thoughtful and engaged on every point. Solving the climate crisis is important, I've been breathing in our burning-down forests all summer. And it's a difficult problem because the machinery of society is a very difficult thing to steer in new directions. I'm engaging critically with your bad ideas, and you choose to interpret that as bad faith because you care more about your ideas than you do about the climate crisis.
If this were true then you would already have explained the relevant points. And you still have the opportunity. Because I'm being good faith enough to ignore your bratty dismissals and to try again to get an actual response from you other than "There is no point in convincing you"
I’ll try to sum it up in a pointed list.
Here in Italy, they recently received a meeting with the climate minister, for example. No association could have that.
An impactful and radical change requires a whole ecology of movements with different strategies and tactics. Unless you have power in the system you are trying to change, obv.
This is an actual response, thanks.
What I'm seeing is a minister met with Greta Thurnberg. She's a celebrity who gives talks on actual environmental issues. This is effective because it's explicitly about the environment.
I'm not aware of situations where people inconveniencing each other (but NOT inconveniencing power) led to meaningful change. Civil rights activists inconvenienced power, not each other.
Are you sure that black panthers or red brigades inconvenienced only those in power? Btw I was not talking about Greta Thunberg but Ultima Generazione, the Italian chapter of Just Stop Oil. Yes, the ones that put cleanable paint over stuff or block the roads
Blocking roads is related to the climate crisis. This makes perfect sense.
They are doing it because it gets people talking and thinking about climate collapse, and that leads to solutions.
No, it gets people talking about people who glue themselves to paintings. And that's as far as the conversation goes because it has no connection whatsoever to environmental issues. It's pure uncut narcissism.
Hey, no slurs.
I didn't use a slur. Come back when you have something to contribute.
This has nothing to do with mental illness, don't use that word like that
Come back when you have something substantial to contribute.
Hey, don't use slurs to make your point
Go away.
Don't pretend somebody is using slurs when they aren't.
Throwing around the name of a mental disability as an insult is a slur. You don't call people narcisstists because you don't attack people for supposed mental disability.
Good lord lol