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As someone who generally makes a point to buy laptops with as much upgradeability as possible, I ended up going with an M1 Pro then M2 Max MBP.
I really don't like how much Apple charges for RAM and storage and that I'm stuck with 32GB and 1TB until I buy an entire new laptop, but I just can't ignore how ridiculously powerful and efficient Apple Silicon is for programming, compiling, and even limited gaming.
It also helps that it's made of metal, unlike most PC laptops at similar prices. I've always had terrible luck with plastic bodies: broken hinges, broken traces on the motherboard from excessive flexing, etc.
In my fantasy utopia, Apple would have slots for adding extra storage and "slow" RAM to all its computers, but that's not happening.
I have a 2011 MacBook Air and it isn't supported anymore but I've put Fedora Linux on it. It's snappy and the track pad is still fantastic.
My 2008 MBP is still running with a Linux distro. It was more for the fun than the usability with the Core2duo and 2go of ram.
I had that. I must say I loved that thing. I used it to death, although that said I only really got around 5-6 years out of it. Replaced the battery once the motherboard once, the fan once, the charger twice. Hmmmm.
It performed absolutely admirably throughout its lifetime though and it had a nice big screen even if it made it quite a chonker. I really appreciate the expansion slot because I was able to give it USB3.0 slots even though it didn't have any when it came out.
Laptop of Theseus? Is the laptop the shell or is it it's motherboard?
I have a 2015 Macbook Retina (mid 2014) that I only have to replace the charger, replace the screen (staingate), and the speaker.
I'm a big believer in self-repair. And right to repair. I buy framework laptops. Because I believe.
I just can't deny however that Apple MacBooks last forever. I personally have a MacBook that still working after 9 years. Right to repair has less meaning when the laptop lasts a decade.
So my current recommendation to people is get a MacBook Air, but if they're technical, then I recommend a framework
"last forever" is an overstatement, the lastest macOS only supports device until 2017: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213264 ; That is only 6 years old, that is around the phone support period around a later pixel phone, which is not even a company that focus on sustainability.
Although you can probably throw linux on it to extend its life, but I dont know if it is as easy as install it on a normal laptop.
On Intel Macs, Linux is pretty easy to install. A lot of people put a lot of work into having most Macs just work out of the box on Linux.
On Apple Silicon, most of that work is still unfinished. Asahi Linux is the main project to get Linux on M1/M2, and the goal is to upstream everything, but it's a long road.
Either way, the sheer popularity of Macs basically guarantees a usable experience on Linux. It's just going to take a bit for Apple Silicon to catch up.
Also, I think "last forever" with Macs is more about the hardware itself. It's hard to deny the build quality is really good (except the keyboard from 2016-2020 on MBPs), and I've seen people using 2011 MBAs stuck on Catalina as their daily drivers because the hardware just keeps working.
Point of clarification, that's only for upgrading the OS, not for security patches. Those go back further, with a recent example covering 10-year-old models.
You're right. They're official timelines aren't super duper long. But it's still longer than any other laptop I've ever owned. I'm not supporting Apple here. I'm just acknowledging their laptops last a very long time. To the point where most people are going to upgrade out of the laptop before it breaks on them. That at least that's my personal experience
I am confused, it seems like two of macOS's competitor: windows and linux, all have much longer support period than apple.
I am using a surface laptop 2 which is almost 5 years old, and given that there is no major version of windows planned, it is hard to imagine that it will become unsupported in 2 years.
Granted many people unnecessarily update their hardware, simply because "new one is better", which is honestly a quiet disappointing trend for me. From my personal experience, apple product buyer seems to have a higher tendency to engage in this trend, for reason unclear to me.
The major difference is Windows and Linux are not as tightly coupled as Mac OS. You can have a Windows laptop which gets updates to Windows operating system even though the hardware is no longer getting driver updates. So if there's a known security issue in your Bluetooth driver for example, nothing will get patched. And you will continue going forward blissfully unaware that you're exposed to a major security vulnerability because Windows itself is not responsible for your Bluetooth driver. And the same for Linux. Just because it can run on the hardware doesn't mean the ecosystem is being maintained.
Apples is the extreme other end of the spectrum. Everything on the computer is being maintained by Apple every piece of hardware is getting hardware updates from Apple, and they're integrated into the operating system. So because of that Apple's providing stronger guarantees if you're within the support window. If you fall out of the support window you can still hack the Mac to run the new versions of Mac OS, and you can still run the old versions of Mac OS without updates.
So it's down to the business guarantees that you're being given by the ecosystem. Apple gives very strong guarantees for a very long period of time.
Windows gives weak guarantees for a very very long period of time, and strong guarantees almost never. Unless you're buying directly from Microsoft and even then they're not guaranteeing hardware updates for every piece of hardware in the system.
And Linux gives no guarantees for hardware
The raw performance isn't everything for me. I already have a gaming laptop that pumps out heat like a 1500W space heater even when it's not doing anything. I really didn't want that in a second laptop, especially with how bad my experience has been with Windows' Connected Standby, where the laptop will just sometimes decide to fully wake up in a bag and overheat and drain the battery.
There were a lot of reasons I went with a Mac for this, but one of the biggest ones was how efficient Apple Silicon is. The M2 Max may take an extra minute or two to compile a large project vs an i9-13900HX, but it also manages to not give me first degree burns if I want to use it on my lap.
I have a lot of problems with Apple and their decisions around macOS and hardware pricing, but for me, that efficiency ratio was really important. I'm not trying to say everyone should buy a Mac, but if we're "saying it like it is", Apple Silicon is years ahead of Intel, AMD, and even Qualcomm for high performance portability. That trade-off might not be worth it to you, and that's fine, but there's literally no competition for what I needed.
The fact of the matter is that the M2 Max rarely goes above 70C under load, even with Apple's ridiculously conservative fan curve, while pretty much every x86 laptop I've owned idles right around there.
Every other post is about how shitty of a company HP is, I'm not sure you'd be winning any integrity points.
A lot of people who talk about how bad Apple laptops are ignore how the rest of the industry is basically moving towards Apple's design language, but doing it cheaply. If you hate apple, you'll hate HP even more.
Yea I hate the way Apple is treating customers with upgrades but they make a damn good product that is unbeatable compared directly. I hope hackintosh lives on. I hope there’s better efficiency to power ratio on PCs. I’m hoping my current Mac could be my last Mac.
The issue is not so much Apple but the lack of real challenger. If only Sony didn't give up on the PC market. I guess they bought in about tablets killing the conventional PC.