this post was submitted on 20 Jan 2025
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Mildly Infuriating

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I have a close friend that I've known 20 years who became obsessed with right-wing politics. even though I'm liberal, I don't make it my entire personality and life. But anyway... I was talking to him this morning casually like friends do.

Me: "Hey man. Do you have off today for MLK day?" Friend: "No, I have to work today." Me: "Damn, sorry to hear. I have off today since it's a company holiday." Friend: "Yeah, I work for a living. Guess that's the difference me and people who live in an ivory tower." Me: "Uhh I work for a living too. Idk why you're acting like I don't?" Friend: "I didn't mean you specifically. But you’re off and I’m not so it shows that you get to relax at least. You should be able to handle the truth lol. There's no shame in admitting that I'm a harder worker than everyone else. you shouldn't be so sensitive"

Honestly, he's not unique, either. I've met so many people who are conservative, obsessed with right-wing stuff, and they're all like this. They act like they're special and the whole world is lazy, "no one wants to work anymore" attitude.

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[–] gofsckyourself@lemmy.world 69 points 1 day ago (4 children)

I’m friends with some right wingers who are decent people.

?

"right wingers" or "decent people"

Choose one, because they are mutually exclusive.

[–] JayDee@lemmy.world 14 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (1 children)

You can still be charismatic, a good neighbor, someone who stands up for friends when things start getting rough, a caring person that worries about those around them, and still hold the most batshit insane political ideas. I happen to know multiple people like this.

People are complex, and plenty are good people who have been led to believe the most outlandish shit. They are gullible and don't put enough thought into what they accept as truth. It is just as attractive to people on our side of the fence to paint everyone else with broad assumptions. It is the nature of Evil, because evil is ultimately a boring thing that we all do every day without thinking about it.

[–] gofsckyourself@lemmy.world 23 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (1 children)

I think the difference is between our definitions of "decent people", because I don't think a person gets to be called "decent" simply because they can be nice, pleasant, thoughtful, or helpful to only the people who abide by their personal world views while actively trying to make life worse for people who don't meet their bigoted qualifications.

Yeah, they can sure seem like "decent people" if you're not on the receiving end of their bigoted ire.

[–] JayDee@lemmy.world 8 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

It's not even that they only accept people that abide by their views - it's just that they are oblivious to those outside the scope of their lives. They are not people who hate immigrants or other minorities, they're people who never interact with minorities at all and so get no pushback when they just passively accept the idea that they are stealing all the jobs in the US. They don't know any trans people and so when they hear that trans people are groomers, they just go "that's horrible! Someone should do something about that".

We need to remember that these people are a large portion of half the US we constantly have to fight against. They're not all just a hateful swarm, there's variety within that mass. They're our relatives and our neighbors. A large amount of these people are really just insanely gullible and don't see past their own noses. That gullibility is a mark on their quality, yes. They can still be decent human beings, despite that. They can also be corrected if you get them to understand, which I've done before. Many others have done the same.

[–] teslasaur@lemmy.world -5 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

This attitude makes liberals lose elections.

Of course there are decent people on "the right". What would you call them if theoretically, they voted for what you want? Would they still be terrible people, just voted correctly?

[–] gofsckyourself@lemmy.world 9 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

What exactly is the logic of your comment? The attitude of people judging right wingers based on their own actions makes "liberals lose* elections"? Where exactly is the information you're basing this on? Your gut feeling? None of what you said made any sense.

The actions of voting for people who want to remove people's rights. The actions of supporting a rapist convicted felon liar. The actions of spreading lies that cost people their lives. The actions of spreading hate towards LGBTQ+ people and anyone who is not willing to be a bigot towards them too, like library workers who get so many death threats they have to leave their job and town. All of these of their own actions are what makes them no longer decent* people, not the label itself. Their hateful, disgusting actions.

How does that exactly cause liberals to lose elections?

People who are willing to do and/or support any or all of the aforementioned behaviors had already made up their mind on who they would vote for. When logic and reason was never even involved in their decision in the first place, then logic and reason is not going to magically start working suddenly.

[–] teslasaur@lemmy.world -5 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

You're judging people based on some flaky righty-lefty dogma that attempts to put people in teams. Stop doing that, and think a bit more logically. People have a million different reasons for thinking a certain way about different subjects, and they might still be kind people. Of the top of my head, i remember the pair of guys who let Borat stay with them. They had the most insane ideas about politics that i've ever heard. But they let a random "immigrant" stay in their house, and didn't utter a single word of complaint. So you'd think they are pretty tolerant. Much more tolerant than a lot of people who vote left that i've mer. Those are the kind people that you lose to the other side. Especially when you call them evil, or whatever you think they might be.

My gut feeling? You did lose the election. Are you not living in the same world I am? You have lost touch with what people want and prioritize.

Judge people on action, but don't fucking label half your country as evil. Many of them have been spoonfed lies like religion since birth.

[–] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 7 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Judge people on action, but don’t fucking label half your country as evil. Many of them have been spoonfed lies like religion since birth.

Can we skip right to the part where we show them films of the atrocities they voted for (precursors for many of which area already in today's headlines) or do we have to wait for all those atrocities to happen first?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5307007/Clip-shows-Germans-walk-Nazi-camp-WW2.html

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2015/09/25/this-is-how-the-german-soldiers-reacted-to-footage-of-concentration-camps-1945/

[–] teslasaur@lemmy.world -5 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

There you go again. Nazis. This isn't the same. Find a new angle, because whatever is going on in the US isn't working.

[–] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 3 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

1932 was a pivotal year in the Nazis’ ascent. It’s a terrifying parallel for today

Leading Civil Rights Lawyer Shows 20 Ways Trump Is Copying Hitler's Early Rhetoric and Policies

Here's the list from that second article. Article goes into detail for each.

  1. Neither was elected by a majority. (not relevant now this was 2019 - but if you are trying to pick these apart one by one instead of looking at the picture they paint, you are still doing it wrong)

  2. Both found direct communication channels to their base.

  3. Both blame others and divide on racial lines.

  4. Both relentlessly demonize opponents.

  5. They unceasingly attack objective truth.

  6. They relentlessly attack mainstream media.

  7. Their attacks on truth include science.

  8. Their lies blur reality--and supporters spread them.

  9. Both orchestrated mass rallies to show status.

  10. They embrace extreme nationalism.

  11. Both made closing borders a centerpiece.

  12. They embraced mass detention and deportations.

  13. Both used borders to protect selected industries.

  14. They cemented their rule by enriching elites.

  15. Both rejected international norms.

  16. They attack domestic democratic processes.

  17. Both attack the judiciary and rule of law.

  18. Both glorify the military and demand loyalty oaths.

  19. They proclaim unchecked power.

  20. Both relegate women to subordinate roles.

Though if you can't see it for yourself by now you aren't paying attention or don't want to see it.

[–] teslasaur@lemmy.world -3 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Talk about missing the point.

I'm not the one you need to convice, you fucking tool. You need "the other people" to agree with you. The fact that you live in a #problematic democracy doesn't change that you need votes.

The parallells fall apart immediately, since that happened pre-information age. Whatever the nazis did to undermine the educated is borderline impossible to do today. Whatever is happening today is different. It's probably worse in that no information can be trusted, in comparison to no information being available at all.

Do you keep this copy-pasta to actually try to convince people?

[–] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Whatever the nazis did to undermine the educated is borderline impossible to do today.

And yet they are doing so.

I’m not the one you need to convice, you fucking tool.

Plonk.

[–] teslasaur@lemmy.world 0 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

And yet they are doing so.

Not in the way the nazis did. So perhaps drop the equivalence.

Are they walking into universities and executing teachers?

[–] gofsckyourself@lemmy.world 5 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

You're judging people based on some flaky righty-lefty dogma that attempts to put people in teams.
Judge people on action

I literally listed actions of individuals. I did previously also very clearly provide logic explaining how the right has defined their party as "all or nothing" themselves. If you don't want to be a part of a party that wants that, then don't support that party.

Additionally, you're the one spouting brainless "left bad" nonsense without anything to back it up:

Much more tolerant than a lot of people who vote left that i've mer.

Then you're trying to put words in my mouth:

Especially when you call them evil, or whatever you think they might be.
don't fucking label half your country as evil.

I never even said the word "evil". I think you just outed yourself.

My gut feeling? You did lose the election. Are you not living in the same world I am? You have lost touch with what people want and prioritize.

I never said anything about not losing "the election" (Note how that's different from "elections" like you said earlier. Now you're shifting the goalpost). I was specifically asking about your claims for the cause of lost "elections" (again, different from "the election"). You made a very specific claim about the cause of lost elections, and you also said "elections" which claims like these need backing data and information, otherwise you're talking out of your ass.

But again, it seems you've outlined the disconnect there in that you've decided to live in a different world where you get to choose what I said and what I meant. Good luck in that little world of yours, kiddo. Keep me out of it.

[–] teslasaur@lemmy.world -3 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

"right wingers" or "decent people". Choose one, because they are mutually exclusive.

Your words. Literally. Stop labeling people.

[–] gofsckyourself@lemmy.world 3 points 7 hours ago

I love your method of completely ignoring my point that I've very clearly outlined and just replace it with whatever you've decided my point is.

You're the living embodiment of "I reject your reality and substitute it with my own."