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Geology and geography are also helping a lot.
Yepp, it’s odd to celebrate the milestone to emobility if one knows it’s paid all by carving carbon out of the earth. The goal of Emobility is to reduce carbon emissions - as far as I know.
A nation converting nearly 100% to EV means less carbon needing to be carved out of the Earth going forward. How is that not something to celebrate for those that like less carbon being carved out of the Earth?
Because this very nation makes tons of money by selling oil and gaz (carbon emissions)
Same joke if Saudi Arabia would go 100% emobility and keeps selling oil (carbon emissions)
Are you saying you would prefer they sell tons oil and gas (carbon emissions), as well as have their nation producing even more carbon emissions from ICE vehicle tailpipes? That seems to contradict your desire to have fewer carbon emissions.
No I‘m not saying this
There only appears to be two realistic choices, and I've enumerated them both. Feel free to clarify your position then.
please clarify what you are saying.
Are you saying a slaughterman that is vegetarian could be proud of his choice? While he still runs his slaughterhouse and kills animals?
Not exactly analogous to our scale here with Norway, but if the goal was less meat consumption by the population, my answer would be: yes. There would unambiguously be one fewer meat eater. Norway's achievement is many more orders of magnitude greater, meaning real change, and real impact on fewer emissions being generated.
I think you're under the mistaken impression that if Norway shut off all petroleum exports that emissions would fall and stay down. They wouldn't. Other petroleum producers would simply ramp up production to fill the gap in supply. So what you're proposing is the worst of outcomes. You appear to have Norway not transition to EVs, but shut down petroleum production.
You're proposing an outcome of higher emissions, which is contradictory to your goal of fewer emissions.
So, you‘re saying that the slaughterhouse must continue killing animals in order to reduce killing of animals at all. Because if this very slaughterhouse won‘t operate and kill, a different would do.
Best is to keep killing animals as long as the butcher is vegeterian everything is fine. ROFL
Edit: Quick google - the slaughterhouse is going to be expanded next years. More animals get killed https://www.climatechangenews.com/2023/06/29/norway-fossil-fuels-oil-gas-fields/
„Norway’s government said on Wednesday it has given approval for oil companies to develop 19 oil and gas fields with investments exceeding $18.5 billion, part of the country’s strategy to extend production for decades to come“ Bless god, Norwegians ride electric.
I'm not saying it must continue. I'm saying continuing or discontinuing doesn't decrease the killing of animals. If your goal is fewer animals killed this action would be completely neutral neither increasing nor decreasing the killing of animals.
Another would. If there is only a single possible supply in the entire world, then you might have a valid argument. However there is no practical limit to the number of places that can extract petroleum or kill animals.
Not "best", better. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. If your goal is to reduce the killing of animals for food, then you're not going to achieve that by reducing the supply of animals in one place. You do it by reducing the demand for slaughtered animals. If the butcher him/herself has chosen to stop eating meat, that reduces slaughtered animals. Companies that slaughter animals won't do so unless there is a person buying the meat. The butch, in your example, would now be reducing the number of animals slaughtered because he/she wouldn't be consuming it.
Fewer actually, if you look at real numbers. In this case geopolitics caused a large producer, Russia, to no longer be able to bring their oil to market. Norway increasing is only replacing a fraction of what Russia produced. The net result is fewer (petroleum) animals killed Check it out. There is less oil being produced now than there was 3 years ago:
source
See, you can't zoom in so far on one thing. You miss the big picture. You're so upset about oil you're not even able to recognize you're getting your way. Less oil is being produced and used! Yet here you are making claims its getting worse. Its not.
In the slaughterhouse image you arguing with the consumer-demands-industry-follows-argument. That is way too easy and not true. Take emobility for example: did it scale because customers demanded it? Or does it because it was subsidued by the Government tonlower prices AND incentivized with tax reduction and special traffic permits?
No, emobility was enforced and engaged by the Government. Neither customers nor industry was the lead. So, is the way with petrol and gas.
I didn‘t get your last point. You are saying that Norway is producing more petrol and gas, are you? And then you claim, that it‘s not that bad because Russia reduced its oil production? Wtf is this? Whatsaboutism?
Same as we produce mountains of carbon every year through oil and gas production. But it‘s not that bad because we all ride electric cars?
No thank you. I already took your slaughterhouse example and dismantled it cleanly. We don't need another tangent.
You were saying that. You cited a source. I didn't disagree with it.
The world NET TOTAL OIL production is lower. With Norway producing more oil on its own, there is still LESS OIL BEING PRODUCED WORLDWIDE. I don't know how much simpler it is to explain that.
Gotcha, you're lacking basic understanding of supply and demand. You need to learn some basic concept before you're going to understand how the world works. In this case I'd recommend you look into basic Micro and Macro economics studies. Read a book and learn, then come back and we can continue our conversation. I'm done.
Have a great day!
They don't withdraw much from that fund though and have an annual ceiling of 3% of its value, they still pay a good amount of taxes (22% on income, 25% sales tax). Blaming the oil fund just shows how lacking other countries management is.
They don't withdraw a lot, but having it means they don't have a need to tax all the things just in case either and they can take a hit today to plan for a better future. That is to say, EVs in Norway are exempt from vehicle taxes, import duties, registration fees and get all kinds of other benefits too making them way cheaper in comparison to ICE cars.
That fund has something like $200 000 per Norwegian in it.
Most things have a 25% sales tax on them + 22% flat rate for income tax. How much taxes are billionaires paying in the US?
Again, blame the fund all you want, in the end the problem is other countries not jumping at the opportunities presented to them to build a similar fund.
It was inspired by Alberta's heritage fund (which obviously existed before Norway's), Alberta has a much bigger oil reserve and has extracted way more oil than Norway. How much do they have in their version of the fund? Less than CAD $30B. Instead of investing for the future they decided to cut all sales taxes and to lower income taxes as much as they realistically could while still offering public services.
The same logic can apply to any government that has natural resources to manage and decides not to nationalize it to invest for the future.
No clue, I'm from Finland where our VAT is 25.5%, income tax is higher than in Norway, and our vehicles are some of the most expensive, and also the oldest, in Europe :)
Close.
Every NOK over 500k is now with VAT. They changed it last year.
The selection under 500k is still quite good, so I’m not gonna pretend the deal is horrible, and you only pay on the amount over, so a 600k car is still artificially cheap compared to most places.
If you think we actually invest in infrastructure, you are sorely mistaken.... I mean yes, we have a decent charging infrastructure. Driven by Tesla purchase and gas stations following through in order to retain EV customers. So some infrastructure is needed to support that.
But we don't even have good enough infrastructure to distribute an abundance of hydro electricity from North to the South, while at the same time we export electricity down to central Europe from the South, so prices fluctuates a crap ton.
Don't get me started on train lines being neglected for the past 50 years. And as most countries we are realising that all our sewage and water lines need a massive renewal....
Maybe we should use more of the oil fund for these tasks, but I believe there would be large inflations if we tossed the oil fund around to fix everything....
I'm not saying they aren't downplaying it, but it's also a population of 5.5 million of highly educated and high per capita income, which makes easier to implement. Small population and people who can afford it.
Maybe but so far in the us, it’s not the large population or lack of affordability blocking EV adoption, as much as politics, conservative backlash, Facebook science, outrage culture. If we could put aside our toxicity, spite, narcissism, and come together for a better future, we could be pretty far down that road too
Certainly valid that there isn't a cultural norm for it in the US. With that said, the US still has about 3.3 million EVs on the road. Norway has about 3.4 million cars on the road total.
So it's a heck of a lot easier to enable 5.5 million people to replace their cars then 330 million people. Size matters as much as the identity we have with it on this one.
That works both ways. Norway doesn’t have a large base of car manufacturers who can follow their guidance, but the US does, including Tesla who did so much to popularize EVs and used to dominate
Any large transition need guidance, incentives, motivation to happen in a reasonable time. Norway did that. Meanwhile the us is an inconsistent mess spewing FUD, lobbying by entrenched interests, and very short term thinking. Of course we only have the early adopters who could wade through all that resistance and now with Musks jump to the right we have a whole new obstacle.
the article points out that due to norway not having a major automobile manufacturer, there was pretty much no lobbying against the laws, so that's a bit of a tick in the opposite direction. the US has numerous very powerful lobbies making it as hard as possible to pass these laws.
And this is the nuanced answer that begins to give context to the issue.
Absolutely correct.
Sure, but Norway also has decent active/public transit. So, if residents can't afford an EV, there's a good chance they just don't own a car at all, and can still get around okay.
As I'm here now, I can attest to the great public transit. However I will also say the large and dispirit nature of their population means the car will still likely rule. Yes many may not afford it, and some prefer the bike (even now in winter) but they seem to love their cars as much as the US given the traffic.