this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2023
532 points (95.2% liked)

World News

39402 readers
2282 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

The world’s top chess federation has ruled that transgender women cannot compete in its official events for females until an assessment of gender change is made by its officials.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] _wintermute@lemmy.world 68 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Because the whole idea of gendered leagues in games that ultimately don't matter at all is about segregation and control, not physiology.

Bring on the down votes from the "but muh sports 'tegridy!" clowns.

Edit: some of yall need a class on statistics lol

[–] bhmnscmm@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't really follow. Do you mean only non/minimally physical competitions or all competitive sports/games/activities?

For things like chess, fishing, and spelling bees gender segregation doesn't make sense. But for things like martial arts or weight lifting I think it makes sense.

It at least makes sense if the goal is competition between roughly similar groups of participants, and not just a single open class dominated by a particular physiology.

[–] _wintermute@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The only concession I can think of is things like crossfit games or Olympic weight lifting, where raw strength is the one and only point, or so central to the point that it'd be pointless to have men and women competing against one another. But things that require strategy or finesse like most sports, and definitely martial arts, women could absolutely be top contenders.

As humans we have hunted mammoths together, gone to the moon together, created computers together, etc. I think we can handle throwing and catching the balls together too.

TLDR there are many more aspects to most sports than raw physical strength, which is the only physiological "advantage" men have over women.

[–] bhmnscmm@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think you're right that there's a spectrum, where one end is bound by raw physical strength and the other end is bound by technique. However, I'd draw the line for segregation closer to the strength end than you, I think. Granted, this is ultimately all just subjective.

I think for many sports the physical advantage men have (on average) would outweigh any technique advantage a woman may have. Especially if we consider professional sports, where the skill (technique) of all participants is already exceptionally high.

I'm not a martial arts expert, but I would argue that the existence of weight classes in most martial arts is evidence that raw strength is a factor that can't be ignored. It's a fact that for an athletic man and an athletic woman of equal weight, the man will be stronger.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Men will still be stronger at equal weight than women though the difference isn't as drastic any more.

About martial arts in particular though women have an advantage when it comes to actually being mentally capable of learning proper technique early on. You can tell your ordinary 16yold guy as often as you want that they should trust technique, punch with their legs, etc. it won't get through their skull and they'll over-tense to "feel the strain" the moment you turn your back on them. They just love their 3rd class levers. Probably even makes sense from an evolutionary POV as doing things inefficiently is strength training.

It's definitely possible for a woman to get better than a random street punk (though not with "feminist self defence" type of classes, those are generally bullshido). Against a properly trained man, though? Let's say that the only thing my SO manages to be is a handful when I try to tickle her and it's kinda hard to tickle when you don't have a free hand.

[–] _wintermute@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's a fact that for an athletic man and an athletic woman of equal weight, the man will be stronger.

Right. It's not a fact that the man will be a more skilled or successful fighter (or insert any sports position here) than the woman based on strength alone, so why should we assume that it is?

[–] bhmnscmm@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

I agree that technique is absolutely a critical component that women can be equal to men on.

I'm just arguing that a woman would have to have an incredible technique advantage to overcome a man's strength advantage (in most martial arts). Is it possible? Certainly. Is it a realistic situation, especially at the professional level? I'm not so sure.

That's why I brought up weight classes. Sure, a lighter weight class athlete has the potential to beat a heavier opponent with superior technique. But the skill gap necessary for that to happen isn't realistic, therefore the playing field is leveled by strength (weight class).

[–] silentdon@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

I definitely disagree with the martial arts point. If it's simple point sparring where technique is most important like in karate or taekwondo then yes, men and women can compete. If it's MMA or any kind of grappling then no, men will dominate at the higher levels.

This will be true of any sport where strength, endurance or speed of the human body is a deciding factor. Which is, unfortunately, most sports.