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Socrates bemoaned those young'ns who had the audacity to read their Homer, instead of memorizing it.
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this post was submitted on 18 Aug 2023
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Showerthoughts
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Eh, there is sufficient evidence to recommend children and teenagers having limited internet and social media access during their formative years at this point.
The tiktok algorithm of mindless doomscrolling funny little bits all short and digestible for a decaying attention span is just the most egregious example why restrictions should at least be considered.
You could say that about a lot of things, though. Video games and TV were commonly criticized this way. And it was a popular meme on Reddit that people would be so addicted to the site that they'd spend hours scrolling it.
Criticizing tik tok is just popular on sites like this because people here really don't like tik tok.
At any rate, parents can already try to restrict their children's access. But governments are gonna have a hard time doing so without hurting everyone as a whole (eg, see the attempts of some US states to require giving your ID to porn sites). Dunno if you remember being a kid, but I found my way around every restriction my parents set and I just disliked them for it.
Red Dead Redepmption 2 is not a video game.
"That's not a game at all. That's like fucking Shakespeare."
-Tenacious D
You realize that’s still true, right? You’re posting this as some big own as though it’s somehow not harmful to mindlessly consume any form of media to an extreme extent, especially in the learning years.
Somebody been watching too many tik toks?
What a ridiculous logical leap.
Erm ackchually it's called an insult and it wasn't meant to convey a logical point
How is it hypocrisy if the previous forms of media were also bad for you, Tik-Tok is just more efficient at funneling meaningless drivel down your throat?
Exactly. We’ve also been saying that burning coal was destroying the climate, and then we said CFCs were destroying the ozone, and then we said massive deforestation is ruining the climate…doesn’t make any of them less true just because we’ve said similar beings about less efficient means of destruction.
Such generalizing statements are blatantly untrue, hypocritical, and harmful. People don't use social media without a reason. Everything a human does is meet their needs, both psychological and physiological. When humans resort to social media it means they resort to social interaction and whatever other needs they may have like having feelings validated, visual/audio/etc. stimulation, but that doesn't sound sensational enough, that's not enough to scapegoat a group of people
Ok but research indicates that it fails to actually meet their long-term needs. This is actually a really confusing take, if humans always do what meets their needs then we wouldn't have any issues at all? We TRY to do what we think will meet them, but we're often mistaken, and this is an example of that.
Did I say that it does meet needs long term? What was the sample? What was the methodology? What communities were they participating in? How were they participating? What were the needs? Did they have a neurodivergency? What were their surroundings like? What was their childhood like? Do they go to therapy? What therapeutic practice did they do in therapy?
Why are you asking like I was talking about a single person? Like... "What therapeutic practice did they do in therapy?"? Is this your idea of a counterargument?
No. I'm asking questions about the research you're referencing. Nothing more.
Sure; this is my go-to. It's a summary, but has references at the bottom to actual research.
They're sponsored by better help💀 ok, let's ignore that
"Strong link between heavy social media use and increased risk for depression" conflating correlation and causation. People are depressed and use social media more because that's one of the only things that feels ok to do and that happens when there isn't a good REAL LIFE support system in the first place, and lack of a good support system IN REAL LIFE can be one of the main contributors to depression and self image issues.
"Inadequacy about your life and appearance" as if people aren't told their whole lives that they should be doctors, engineers, dentists, and that they should always be pretty THEIR WHOLE LIFE. People grow in an environment where these inadequacies are developed in the first place. It's never "do what you like to do", it's always "be normal" and "be successful". Social media is not at fault for this. Sure, social media can trigger negative thoughts about these topics, but it isn't the one that tells people who to be or what to look like, it isn't the one who implanted these insecurities and fear into your brain in the first place.
"FOMO" that's just capitalism and point number 2. It's the "you should do this and be this" implanted into your brain since the day you're born. Social media helps find communities that are against this and that deconstruct this dumbass rhetoric. Without social media, on this scale, it just isn't possible.
"Social media addiction" you should really look up how psychological addiction develops, but I'll sum it up for you (but it is more nuanced that that). A psychological need not met properly (or at all) for the entire life ➡️ suddenly it's a bit more met than usual ➡️ brain's reward system things ➡️ brain wants you to repeat ➡️ possible development of scarcity mindset-like behavior in relation to the subject. And it doesn't have to be the thing that supposedly gets you addicted. It can be the circumstances (people and your emotional connection with them, some rituals that can be soothing or just pleasant in any way). My point is when people are ostracized in real life - the internet presents them an opportunity to find someone, or a group of people, whose experiences are relatable, with whom they could build some kind of emotional connection. So someone is being called "weird" for whatever reason ➡️ they refer to social media where that happens much less ➡️ now they get bullied not only for being "weird", but also because they "have a social media addiction". You're not going to tell me that's social media's fault, right?
"and Instagram increases rather decreases feelings of loneliness. Conversely, the study found that reducing social media usage can actually make you feel less lonely" which means social media, as an entity, has little to do with this.
"Depression and anxiety. Human beings need face-to-face contact to be mentally healthy. Nothing reduces stress and boosts your mood faster or more effectively than eye-to-eye contact with someone who cares about you." Is that a reason why social media is harmful or what? How is this a critique of social media? This is literally just another reason why "social media addiction" exists in the first place - feeling lonely and invalidated irl.
"Cyberbullying. About 10 percent of teens report being bullied on social media and many other users are subjected to offensive comments." While true, the real issue lies in people lacking a support system in real life which, again, can be the reason for "social media addiction" in the first place. This shit wouldn't have such an impact if these dumbass "responsible and functional members of society" weren't popping out children they don't care about like they're a candy factory because "children are cute🥺" and "I want a mini version of me🥺" and "who doesn't want children🥺". You treat your child like shit ➡️ the child treats other people like shit. You scapegoat your child ➡️ the child tries scapegoating other people. How is that not common sense I don't understand. Like those people vote????? THOSE people are considered "normal"? That's the society's norm? This is genuinely pissing me off right now. I'm falling into a personal rant here
"Self-absorption. Sharing endless selfies and all your innermost thoughts on social media can create an unhealthy self-centeredness and distance you from real-life connections." WHAT LMFAO PLEASE💀💀💀💀 Not only that claim is blatantly incorrect, theres also NO SOURCE FOR IT (yes I looked through each of them). I've found studies about it being linked to NPD but social media doesn't cause NPD WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK LMFAOOOOOOO
At least they said that there's limited evidence of social media's harm before listing their points
Anyway, there's nothing in this article that says "research indicates that it fails to actually meet their long-term needs", nothing in the resources they referred to. There's also no such thing as "long term need". "if humans always do what meets their needs then we wouldn't have any issues at all?" Ever heard of survival, exploitation, gaslighting, repression, abuse, manipulation? Almost nobody is taught emotional intelligence and proper interoception and that's not to mention people with different neurological development who have it so so much harder because the expectations that are put on them are made for people with typical neurological development.
Also no. Addiction happens exactly when the needs are met more than usual, hence "social media addiction", and it's not the social media's fault, it's not "TikTok Instagram bad". It's weaponized misconceptions about mental health that are creating this issue in the first place
Edit: PSA - more than usual does not mean enough
I think that's generally a good argument, however the rate and level of dopamine hits from TikTok and YouTube Shorts may far surpass that of prior mediums and so actually warrant additional considerations and precautions.
But then, I may just be an old man.
Do you know anything about the reward system and addiction apart from the words "serotonin" and "dopamine"? /gen
Video games are interactive, not passive. You can learn a lot and sharpen your reflexes, but moderation is still key.
It may be hypocritical, but have you considered that all of these forms of entertainment are unhealthy? The only difference is that they get more and more efficient with each generation, causing increasing levels of concern from each generation. That's indicative of a rising trend
This is a rather interesting viewpoint and I can't really find any fault with it.
It's mine as well, I think it has a decent chance of being right.
@STUPIDVIPGUY @aCosmicWave I'm trying and eliminating are sources of entertainment from these websites since the saturation of entertainment content is much more than educational ones now.
Fwiw I actively believe that reddit is responsible for shortening my attention span.
It is not hypocritical to call out tik tok for doing the same.
What situations your short attention span makes uncomfortable for you apart from things related to some sort of achievement (as perceived by your workplace, school, family, friends, etc)
Can you rephrase your question? Imo nearly everything can be interpreted to relate to some sort of achievement.
I mean achievement as something that's perceived by society, something that you don't do for enjoyment, something to profit off of in some way (be it simple recognition or raised social status), "I will do this because people will also see it and that's very good". It can be the expectations of relatives, workplace, college, or you're just doing something for the workplace or college.
I'm asking because I cannot imagine what hobbies/activities outside of performing for somebody can be negatively affected by short attention span. It's not your problem that people are just boring and don't treat you like a god damn human (workplace that requires you to sit and sign documents for 12 whole hours with little to no breaks, or endless inefficient meetings, for example)
The media technologies are not comparable, thats where your argument falls apart.
What if I found the type content that my generation absorbed to be a problem as well?
“I’m not saying it’s true I just wanted to imply it’s true to drive ~~enragement~~ engagement”