this post was submitted on 26 Mar 2025
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omg they made lemmy political
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One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.
The founding fathers were terrorists, according to the definition the US government uses. They were fighting an occupying force using violence. We now call them heroes and patriots. It’s a matter of perspective.
Did they kidnap ship workers, woman and children to torture, rape and kill them? Did they parade naked woman through the street? Was their Slogan "death to america"?
If you support that youve sold your soul and got nothing in return.
Likely yes
Most of the founding fathers were slave owners so that's a yes to that as well
Americans called it a slave auction
Of course not. They were America so why would they say "death to us"? It was more like "death to England and the tyrant King George".
Life isn't black and white.
The whole encyclopedia of whataboutism in one comment. Respect
How is this "whataboutism"? They gave instances for every one of your hypotheticals.
I do think that Hamas and Houthis are generally vile human-beings and that the West should not be cheering for the Shia muslim faction. But it is also true that they represent freedom fighters to some - especially those in Palestine currently being murdered (genocide) so Israel can have more living space
You asked, I answered. Simple as.
That's not how whataboutism works.
Yeah, that's not what whataboutism is. The person was asked several questions, and they answered them. They even quoted each individual question before answering it.
Don't ask the questions if you don't want them answered lmao
Was the slogan of the founding fathers of America "death to america"? Super hard hitting question.
Also there was more than enough rape, murder, and genocide taking place on the part of the American revolutionaries, and it was being actively encouraged by the founding fathers.
This is like the seventh comment saying "but what about..." that I get.
Is that the bar that makes you defend atrocities against civilians?
You need a deep look into your self mate
Are we talking about the Palestinian civilians or the Israelis specifically?
Since were talking about Houthis and Hamas, Israel citizens and all kinds of others.
Lemmy seems to love them die.
The other civilians reeeaaally don't count for you, do they?
What are you even talking about? This is about Hasan Piker
You were just talking about civilians. Are you even going to deny that you don't care?
It's not a hard conversation to follow. If you gave a shit about civilians, you would include Palestinians. But you cannot because you know how bad that looks for your position.
So we just ignore the IDF then?
I'm sorry but if you can't even remotely see from where Hasan (or the other commenter) is coming from then you're literally no better than what you blame him to be. Israel has been terrorizing Palestinians probably longer than you've been alive and America has been supporting Israel since the beginning. Are you really surprised when the Palestinians, who have been terrorized their entire life, radicalize into Hamas and start shouting "death to America"?
How convenient that you ignore the rapes and murders and just argue about their slogan.
I don't have to ignore it. Isreal gets it's own wiki page of rape and torture . You'll be hard pressed to find anything Hamas has done that Isreal hasn't done 10 times worse.
So that's your bar to justify rape and murder of innocent people, that others have done it.
You are evil
I think it's a perfectly reasonable conclusion that when you're forced to grow up in an violent environment you can also end up being a violent person. I don't condone the actions of Hamas but in the context of the systemic violent oppression by Israel I can see see the "justification" of their actions.
As for being evil. I find it far more evil that you're deliberately trying to villanize victims of oppression. Palestinians couldn't end the conflict even if they wanted to, and I'm sure most of them want to. They can't end the conflict because they're the ones being oppressed, their actions of violence are a response to an oppressive regime. Israel could easily end this conflict in a peaceful manner, but they choose to continue the oppression.
I'm more evil because I am not justifying rape and murder? Sure bud
Yes, you're perpetuating systemic oppression, murder and sexual abuse.
Let me put it very plainly. Let's say someone is bullied for a year and every week for a year the target of bullying gets beaten up. And then after a year they decide to throw a punch at the bully. Which of the two reactions sounds less evil? "obviously the bully had it coming they've been beating the shit out of the other person." or "I can't believe what a violent piece of shit the other person is for punching the bully."?
In case it's not clear, you're the latter calling people terrorists for being violent against the violent oppression that they've been subjected to for decades.
Terrorists don't throw punches at bullies, they rape and murder civilians, and that's what youre trying to defend here.
Absolute evil, and I mean you
I'm not defending that. I already said I don't condone their acts of violence. I'm simply stating their actions are in response to the systemic atrocities Israel enacts upon them. That's not absolute evil, that's just stating the obvious. What is absolutely evil is your complete refusal to accept that even as possibility.
We're done now. You can continue barking like the Israeli lapdog you are, I don't give a fuck. I have zero respect for soulless monsters like you.
Edit:
And of course he plays the "you're an anti-Semite" card. It's not antisemitic to call someone a monster if they deliberately try to villainize victims of oppression. I don't even know if the commenter is jewish or not and I don't care because it doesn't change my opinion of him at all, he's a piece of shit regardless.
And it's not antisemitic to call out the state of Israel for their deplorable acts of oppression. Israel being a jewish nation doesn't make them imprevious to criticisms you could aim at any nation in the world (if they were systematically oppressing a minority group). Israel also doesn't represent all the jews in the world which means criticism of Israel is not criticism of the jewish people. Calling others antisemitic because they criticize systemic oppression does nothing to address the criticism, it's a cowardly attempt (by both the other commenter and the Israeli government) to sweep the criticism under the rug because it's an indefensible position.
~~Jean-Paul Sartre
~~Jean-Paul Sartre, 1972, after the attack on the Israeli Olympic team in Munich
did you learn anything about early america? they absolutely did all that except the "death to america" part was really "death to britons".
That torture, rape, and murder stuff sounds nearly as bad as what Americans and Israelis do daily.