this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2023
148 points (76.1% liked)
Linux
48331 readers
605 users here now
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).
Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.
Rules
- Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.
- No misinformation
- No NSFW content
- No hate speech, bigotry, etc
Related Communities
Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Is Wayland support finally actively worked on, or is it still postponed?
According to a recent announcement by one of the devs:
In other words, they haven't even started yet.
Big yikes. In that case, I wouldn't recommend Mint to beginners at all. Alone, the whole Sandbox concept of Flatpak needs Wayland to work properly. Wayland is the future, regardless if you like it or not.
Agreed. I actually think Pop OS and Nobara are the best beginner distros right now. Mint is falling a bit behind the times.
I like the idea of Nobara but I'm scared of recommending it because of the Fedora telemetry stuff. Considering GE is a RedHat employee, I don't think he would disable Fedora's telemetry in Nobara.
This might not be the most popular take, but IMO the fuss about Fedora's (proposed) telemetry is way overblown. By all accounts, it seems intended to help the dev team improve OS performance and will still preserve user privacy.
People tend to lump all telemetry together but Fedora's implementation would be significantly less concerning than that which users of Android, Windows and Apple OSs currently put up with on a daily basis.
I agree. A lot of people went over the discussion to voice their opinions. And the proposers have adapted it since. They listen to their users, contrary to other for-profit operating systems (to reiterate, Fedora is NOT for-profit, and it never has been)
While true, the fact that this was proposed by RedHat engineers combined with the fact that RH employs some of the upper echelons of Fedora members, thus having quite some control over Fedora as a project makes me distrust parts of it. Someone like Matthew Miller seems trustworthy, but you can never be sure. And I think thag if this is accepted, it should NOT be implemented in Nobara, because even from the pro-telemetry perspective, it is still harmful, as it skews analytics significantly.
I'm not familiar with your last point - what analytics does it skew and how?
I mean, It does some decisions for the user, when compared to a standard Fedora installz and as such, the number of people who install Lutris, for example, might jump significantly. It's likebwith the GNOME analytics, where, if Nobara would participate, it would significantly increase the amount of users using the dash-to-panel extension, even if most of rhem disable it immediately after. This is just an example, of course. The point is that it's an opinionated, gaming-focused version of Fedora, and runs the risk of skewing the analytics because of the way it does things.
If it's not opt in, it's spyware.
There is literally no data generated by my machine that you can take without me making an active choice to give it to you without being a bad human being. It is not your data. It's mine. There are zero exceptions.
There is exactly one valid way to collect user data. You ask permission, with precise details on how you intend to use it and how you will anonymize it. Then you respect the answer.
There is vast ocean of difference between collecting non-personalized, aggregate data internally to inform UI design decisions or improve system performance on the one hand and secretly logging personal information in order to pass on or sell to third parties on the other.
Literally every single bit of data you collect without explicit opt in is malicious and unacceptable.
There is no possible theoretical excuse for collecting anything from someone else's hardware (without a very deliberate opt in from them) that is forgivable, let alone valid. It is not your data to collect.
If you actually think it benefits the user, you should have no issue asking them for permission and telling them how it's in their interest. The fact that you won't just ask for permission is implicit acknowledgment that users don't agree with you and won't freely give it.
It will most likely be explicit opt-in, if it is implemented.
Source: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Telemetry#Many_users_want_to_require_opt-in_rather_than_opt-out
I think they are taking a careful approach since there are still apps out there that don't work on Wayland. For example TeamViewer.
Personally I don't mind if they take their time to evaluate it, try it and see how best to integrate it. Rather than just rush in and break a whole lot of stuff.
I don't think the "some apps don't work with Wayland" argument is particularly valid any more. The vast majority do, and most of those that don't are outdated anyway. Gnome ships with it by default and KDE is really close to that point as well.
There really shouldn't need to be any debate whether to implement it or not at this point- clinging on to X11 is just delaying the inevitable.