this post was submitted on 15 Apr 2025
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[–] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 33 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (59 children)

Look at the earliest airplanes. Little things made out of cotton and balsa that couldn't outrace a strong horse.

Look at the earliest video games.

edit = I'm not a Bezos fanboy, but if we're going to have space travel there are going to be stunts, just like there were back in barnstormer days.

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 47 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (9 children)

Space travel is not the same.

Strictly considering low earth orbit, one needs to accelerate a payload to 25,000 km/h and like 500km above the ground. This is not computation or atmospheric flight. There's no shortcut, no engineering to work out, the physics dictates this is a hard problem. Solutions:

  • You go up with a chemical rocket, where almost all the launch mass is fuel. To get the ratio in your head, think the liquid in a coke can vs the can that holds it... that's the mass/fuel ratio we're dealing with, and tricks like hybrid engines or booster returns barely soften the MASSIVE cost for even the tiniest things you send up.

  • You assist it from the ground. "Gun" launches, as some are developing (and that I'm quite enthusiastic about), can't launch humans. Stratolaunches (from planes) only get you partway there, more like a booster.

  • You go nuclear. This is the only way to increase energy density vs. chemical rockets enough to make a difference. Needless to say, there are significant environmental/safety concerns when doing this on the ground, and I'm as pro-nuclear as anyone you'll find. Check out Atomic Rockets for more on this, with concrete theoretical designs that are still batshit crazy: https://projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/engineintro.php

  • You develop a space elevator or some analogue. No commercial launch research is even pretending to develop this, and it would require massive materials science breakthroughs.

...That's it. That's how you get to space. This isn't a "Wright Brothers vs modern jets" thing, that kind of cost optimization is just not physically possible. And whenever Musk lies through his teeth about practically colonizing Mars, people need to understand that...

[–] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Oh how I wish the X-33 / VentureStar had actually worked out...

https://wikipedia.org/wiki/VentureStar

Either something like that, or somekind of... craft that has both a RAMJet and also some kind of rocket propulsion... that or a SCRAMJet that actually works... could maybe help get us to, or toward, at least an SSTO craft, or system.

Hah, or we can go full conspiracy theorist and find and publicize the anti gravity field generator equipped TR 3B in Hangar 18 or whatever, haha.

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

You're looking for the SABRE hybrid engine! It's super cool: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SABRE_%28rocket_engine%29

It flash freezes air to liquid using a mad heat exchanger, until the atmosphere is thin enough to warrant switching to liquid oxygen. It's better than what you describe, as it saves a tone of weight over separate jets and rockets! It was tested, and seems to work!

...But out timeline sucks, hence it was canceled in 2024 :(

https://www.flightglobal.com/aerospace/reaction-engines-to-close-as-cutting-edge-sabre-fails-to-advance/160565.article


Aerospike engines are awesome, but I'm skeptical of the X-33 TBH. It would've been cool if it had worked out.

Where you should be looking now is the "gun launch" startups. Once that's figured out, it's so much cheaper to launch "sturdy" payloads that way. Nuclear upper stages are a good option, too (with fission fragment drives being my personal favorite: https://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/enginelist2.php#fissionfragment)

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