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When people point out the west is far from being the "good guys" shit like this is what they have in mind. USA and Europe supported israel and armed it to teeth making possible for the fascist israel government to conduct such attacks. If you don't accept that our governments are as much rigged and evil as russia or china these useless war will never cease.
Why would you think people in the west would be upset about this?
If anything, the west has armed the shit out of Israel so they can do exactly this. Iran is a major Russian ally/puppet and an Islamic theocracy having nukes would be a very bad thing indeed. That's not to say Israel hasn't lied about why they've done this, because the footage of burning buildings in the middle of cities speak for themselves. They don't look like no "nuclear research facilities" I've ever seen, so we're clearly back to just bombing entire buildings to kill one person (if they were even there).
Iran knew full well what the response would be when they armed Hamas for the October attacks. It would mean Gaza being wiped off the map. Sure, those attacks hurt Israel, but they hurt Palestinians a whole lot more. Iran was just hoping that the resulting genocide stopped the west funding them.
If people in the west want this to stop (and lets be honest, any voting choices are pointless because all our major parties support war in the middle east), then we need to stop using oil and gas, so this whole area can go back to being a chunk of irrelevant desert so that all major players can take their fucking fingers out of it.
To me it sound like after admitting a war crime you are still pretending to be one of the good guys.
And so does israel government. They are aware that attacking iran may result in a war where thousand civilians may die but they don't give a shit about it.
The area house some of the oldest cultures in the world, read its history. We should indeed stop using oil and gas and that's something "extremists" have preach for decades warning us against global warming and conflicts.
Don't mistake me pointing out what they're doing for support of that "tactic". Iran does not have infinite resources to build new facilities. You blow those labs up, it's gone. Blow it up in the day, so were those nuclear scientists. Israeli intel is pretty damn good, even if their military are inhumane savages. They know where the facilities are, and they can knock them out whenever they want.
There is exactly one regional threat to Israel's existence, and it's a nuclear armed Iran.
And they do indeed have some of the oldest cultures in the world, but it all got a hell of a lot worse when we found oil under it.
It's not good at all. Israel forces have been murdering so many civilians that collateral damage has become part of their plans. What they are doing won't result in any peace or safety, they are setting the ground for even more conflicts which is exactly what those in power want. They are pretty damn good at serving their fascist ruler.
So... you must know that the atrocities committed have nothing to do with the quality of their intel.
In other words, the comment makes 0 sense as a reply. I mean it's a fine comment on its own, it's just not at all a reply to what you quoted. I really only bring it up for your benefit, because being unrelated to the quote like that makes the comment seem dishonest, which makes the rest of your message less credible.
I don't work for any fascist government so i'm not much familiar with how they operates, does intel/intelligence only collects data or do they also plan operations? I was referring to their strategies and tactics.
Anyway to stay on the topic even their intel that just collect data is not that "good". Israel government run mass surveillance programs that affect just everyone.
You two are talking past each other. None of what you wrote has any connection to what the other person wrote. In fact, you guys probably don't disagree about anything. OP is just giving an explanatory description, not a normative essay.
I'd argue that a nuclear Iran is not the only threat to Israel. Pretty much every other nation in the region hates their guts and wants them wiped off the map, and Israel has only stopped this from happening due to western support for their military. Iran nuking them is definitely a threat. But the other big threat Israel must contend with is losing Western support and munitions. Without that, a coalition of Arab states would overrun Israel in a conventional war.
My bet: Israel knows it is losing the war of public opinion in the West. So it is trying to start a war with Iran to get the West to support it again. Your ally committing genocide against an enemy that has almost no resources and no means of escape is a difficult stance to maintain. But supporting your ally in a war against your sworn enemy has a lot more public appeal - or so Israel hopes.
I have to say this I don’t buy this constant nuclear threat. Iran supposedly started their nuclear program 30 years ago. Either they have a bomb or they will never get it. It doesn’t take that long to replicate what other countries did in a few years.
Oh they hate them, but they can't do anything about them. Egypt had a go (with a load of Soviet Union support, back when that meant something), and after 6 days they'd lost a huge amount of their own country. Syria still haven't got all their land back even now.
This attack appears to be timed to coincide with Trump's 60 day deadline for whatever nonsense he thought they were going to agree to, so there's a good chance the US told them to do it and when.
Right. My point is that the Arab states lost to Israel because Israel was backed by the West. Without western support, a tiny Jewish state with almost no natural resources and a small population would be hard-pressed to stand its ground against a coalition of Arab states with a much larger population, oil money, and possible Russian backing. All the Arab states would need to do is keep taking pot shots at Israel while their superior military technology degrades and their stockpiles dwindle. A modern fighter jet relies on thousands of hyper-specific, high precision parts which can only be sources from western manufacturers. One part breaks and your whole plane is grounded. Even if the Arab states are not in great shape themselves, they win a war of attrition handily - especially once the average Israeli sees the inevitable and flees, depriving Israel of its soldiers and intellectual economy.
Otoh, your timeline argument is reasonable, and I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't a coincidence in one way or another.
They only really need the support of one western state, and it's a big one. They are not going to abandon the precious "Holy Land" any time soon. I don't know what the average American thinks is going on out there, but it ain't that.
It wasn't on the table during the election, and I doubt it will be in the future either. It's practically a US outpost, and frankly, this should be considered a US attack on Iran. Nothing will be done about it either way.
There are structural and cultural issues behind the military failures of Israel's Arab neighbors that have nothing to do with Western support.
Nuking israel would mean harming palestinians too. This will never happen. Iran is not crazy to nuke any other countries just like all the current nuclear powers
You seem to be entirely ignoring comtinual efforts to prevent them from becoming so empowered including murdering their scientists, bribing their leaders, drawing up agreements and them just not pushing it because the natural and expected results is war.
It is reasonable to expect that any given year the US would rather kill them all rather than let them have nukes.
What makes you think any arab nation cares about the Palestinians' well-being?
i can't debate an idiot who think iran is an arab country
He's talking about Arab nations, Not Persian Iran. I mean I understand you had that response in your pocket for someone who can't tell the difference between Persians/Iranians and Arabs. But that's not what they did.
That's exactly what they did
The same point stands. What makes you think the Persians care about Palestinians?
What do you want Iran to do when they get imposed heavy sanctions from everywhere they have no option but to rely on Russian again. Iran could have been a normal country with good relation will all country but the west interfered and organized a coup to back up a dictator.
Iran autocracy is an internal affair no foreign countries government has to interfere. We can just as people protest the theocracy but not supporting killing Iranians under the pretext of democracy like we did in Iran.
If you really cared about democracy you would have also pretested american support for Saudi arabia