this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2025
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https://www.chicagotribune.com/2025/07/20/opinion-broadway-upzoning-parking-chicago/

"If the city becomes more dense, where will people put their car?!!" he asks.

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[–] AlexLost@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I understand we need to move away from the personal automobile as it is currently conceived, and they are building houses without parking and adding transit infrastructure and such, but if only the very wealthy can afford to buy the housing being built, these are not the same demographics of people who use transit infrastructure and therefore require parking, gobbling up all the available street parking in the area and causing businesses to suffer as they can't be accessed by a wider majority of people from the suburbs. It's a cart before the horse kind of thing but I don't see it stopping anytime soon unfortunately.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 0 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

gobbling up all the available street parking in the area and causing businesses to suffer as they can't be accessed by a wider majority of people from the suburbs. It's a cart before the horse kind of thing

On the contrary, building transit before density is what's putting the cart before the horse. Transit cannot get the funding it needs to get built until after the congestion caused by density demonstrates that it's necessary. Refusing to build density before transit just means you never get either.

Also, the notion that it's wrong to build density that adds customers within walking distance for fear of losing customers driving in from the suburbs is pants-on-head nonsense.

[–] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

if only the very wealthy can afford to buy the housing

Build it without parking. The price will drop. Now we have more affordable housing :-D

[–] sanity_is_maddening@piefed.social 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 children)

What?? Pretty soon you're gonna be suggesting that there are better ways to transport people around than cars and that we could build better public transportation infrastructure with the tax payers money so that the same tax payers can afford mobility for a lot less while saving time in getting around and polluting a lot less the atmosphere that allows them to breath!

What's this? Do you want to make sense? We wouldn't want to start making sense now, would we?

...

Jokes aside now, when it comes to housing, the problem is not a lack of housing in itself necessarily. The crucial part of the problem resides in property hoarding by the wealthy and upper middle-class as long term investments in the form of assets to flip, all while they still obtain revenue in renting them to the highest bidder. Airbnb and similar initiatives destroyed affordable rent all around the world. This to say, that a lot of people in the unprivileged categories didn't also mind screwing their peers to get ahead. This is what the capitalist system does. It re-enforces sociopathic behaviour in people through them valuing the monetary tokens more than the lives of those around them and the very world in which they have to inhabit. This is what Elizabeth Magie tried to explain the world when she created "The Landlord's Game". It has been explained and demonstrated as a predicted model for a very long time. And we all lose in the end. Always.

Saying that the government needs to interfere and create measures to prevent the furthering of this crisis is incomplete without acknowledgement of the required rewiring of the general public to stave off the centuries old social conditioning of appealing to the worst in human condition.

The default setting of a common citizen is not to contribute to a life shared by all that live around them and in turn benefit from the same efforts from others. It is instead to try and survive them all and and not needing the slightest from them. Which is never true, never possible but nevertheless the reason why we are always in this mess. And the reason why we all lose, and even those who lose the least, they still have to inhabit a world that would be better if this wasn't true.

Individuality also explains the housing crisis in the sense that more and more people have the desire to live alone. And therefore more houses are required. Which in a world like the one we have, that desire is perfectly understandable but in itself also a reinforcement of the loop that causes it.

It's a mess.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

Jokes aside now, when it comes to housing, the problem is not a lack of housing in itself necessarily.

The problem is lack of housing specifically in the places where the high demand for it exists.

The notion of prices being high because everything is getting bought up by investors is an easy, comfortable scapegoat, but that's all it is -- a scapegoat. Fundamentally, landlords and flippers don't make money unless they have an occupant to lease or sell the housing unit to. Sure, you could say that the speculative bubble holding vacant properties and waiting for them to appreciate is making the housing crisis worse, but that only comes into effect after prices start to spiral and thus cannot be the underlying cause that made housing an attractive investment for speculators in the first place.

The real underlying cause is simple: supply is not being allowed to meet demand because of zoning codes that restrict density.

Saying that the government needs to interfere and create measures to prevent the furthering of this crisis is incomplete without acknowledgement of the required rewiring of the general public

You might be right in the way that you mean, but I want to talk about how you're also right in a different way: people are too often wired to see rezoning for density as "interference" by the government because changing the law is a government action, but in reality it is undoing the previous interference the government did when they restricted the zoning to begin with.

Individuality also explains the housing crisis in the sense that more and more people have the desire to live alone. And therefore more houses are required. Which in a world like the one we have, that desire is perfectly understandable but in itself also a reinforcement of the loop that causes it.

The way I see it, the problem isn't that people need to be rewired to be less individualist, the problem is that the government needs to stop indulging their desires by subsidizing them at public expense. I have no problem with somebody "wanting" to live in a single-family house instead of an apartment/condo, but I have a very big problem with the government subsidizing that want by forcing developers to build single-family houses when the market demands dense housing, displacing all the other people who could've lived there and causing the massive negative externalities of car-dependency in the process.

[–] sanity_is_maddening@piefed.social 2 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

I can't speak for every place on earth, but where I live in the south of Portugal, that is very much the problem. And affordable long term rent has been destroyed in all of Europe by Airbnb and similar initiatives. And no, this is not a scapegoat theory. All you have to do is access housing registrations and match against citizenship registered to addresses in the same area and then you start to see the problem. There's a lot more houses than people that have their permanent address registered to the same area. So then the problem can't be housing in itself. When one starts to look closer we start to notice a lot of titles to the same people and the same last names as we all would expect. The house to person ratio is quite disproportionate in its distribution. I can tell you that this has been exposed time and time again over time, but since 2008 that it has indeed gotten worse and more so exponentially every year since then.

The problem in just simply building more housing is that the same thing will happen to those new homes. They'll just be absorbed into this same phenomenon of asset flipping and market speculation in which even rent, not just owning property reaches prices beyond what locals can afford with long term rent even becoming entirely unavailable due to Airbnb and other initiatives alike.

That's why the governments have to intervene. Especially at a local level. But if a rewiring of the general population doesn't occur, it will just be lobbied back to the same as before. As it has happened. Because what is simply enforced is not learned. And this is what you are referring to when you speak to the public aversion to government intervention. If not understood and learned, what is then witnessed is the same rope pull of do and undo between governmental administrations, that wears off and alienates the public.

But yes, sometimes the problem in itself can be an increase of population density that exploded beyond the local availability of houses. And then new housing development is required or people will have to choose (more like forced without an option) to relocate.

That is why I said "the problem is not a lack of housing in itself necessarily". In which I meant it as not always the source of the problem. I didn't say the lack of housing in itself is NEVER the problem.

There are many contributors to this issue.

Environmental changes and war are also intertwined as they both lead to resource depletion, and become part of the same feedback loop that plays a part in the whole of the Metacrisis. In which both will cause mass migrations. And mass migrations will always cause a disparity between demand and availability in housing, which leads to more inflation and more conflicts over resources, which in turn leads to more mass migrations and on and on and on... This is "systems thinking" and the general public has not caught up to the descent we're in yet. Or is in denial and refusing to engage in the face of its enormity.

Most problems that are detected by most people are real and feeding into one another. What I said is true and what you said is true and anyone who doubts that is possible is not engaging with the complexity of the world as it is.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 0 points 40 minutes ago

Well, I have no experience with Portugal, so I will concede that, regarding Portugal, you may very well be correct, and the speculative investment housing bubble has some underlying cause other than North American-style Euclidean low-density zoning.

I believe that my argument does apply in North America (as well as other English-speaking countries that have copied American city planning ideas, such as Australia, New Zealand, and to a slightly lesser extent, the UK), though.