this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2023
194 points (97.5% liked)
Climate - truthful information about climate, related activism and politics.
5212 readers
565 users here now
Discussion of climate, how it is changing, activism around that, the politics, and the energy systems change we need in order to stabilize things.
As a starting point, the burning of fossil fuels, and to a lesser extent deforestation and release of methane are responsible for the warming in recent decades:
How much each change to the atmosphere has warmed the world:
Recommended actions to cut greenhouse gas emissions in the near future:
Anti-science, inactivism, and unsupported conspiracy theories are not ok here.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
It is this very thought that prevents reform.
It isn't thought that prevents reform.
Thinking things can't reform does prevent reform.
To quote a fictional character, Eleanor Shellstrop, "You've gotta try, man".
If you don't think you can, you won't act. If you don't act, you definitely won't reform anything.
I think this is a case for pragmatism:
https://www.philosophizethis.org/transcript/episode-154-transcript
Thoughts don't form in a vacuum. They are the product of the underlying material conditions, produced by the intellectual labor of the army of propagandists that work in the fossil fuel industry, the meat industry, the ethanol industry, etc. You're putting the cart before the horse.
Thoughts matter, but they are a symptom of deeper structural problems that prevent reform. Combating bad ideas only treats a symptom.
I really don't understand what you mean by this.
So are you giving up?
You're saying that bad thinking is blocking reform.
I'm saying it is a result of reform being blocked.
I'm saying bad thinking guarantees defeat, and that this isn't over yet.
Look at the Kansas abortion ballot initiative debacle. I'd wager that the climate deniers and anti abortion people are largely the same group. That election shows that they can be beaten and probably have more people on our side than they do. I.e. we are the proverbial elephant tied up with a string.
That election shows they can be beaten, it doesn't show the power of positive thinking. That's still putting the cart before the horse.
So what's your objective here? Are you trying to refute my point that thought influences action?
My objectives: 1. pull doomers out of giving up and into trying 2. Inspiring people to take any action at all 3. Hopefully getting some lukewarm fence sitters on board 4. The giant challenge of turning this thing around.
My reason: I'm a parent. I want my kids to inherit a world that isn't a climate apocalypse. Even if I lose, they know I cared enough enough to try.
Here is what frustrates me. Some actions save money, reduce GHG emissions, and are low effort.
My objective is to hammer home that actions influence thoughts! There's a fundamental material underpinning to all politics that you're ignoring in favor of literal idealism (i.e. the theory that politics springs fully formed from people's minds). You'll get more fence sitters on your side with actions than you will with words, because people need to see results to believe change is possible.
My reason is I'm extremely frustrated by liberals who think we can just debate our problems into submission. It requires blood and sweat.
Take a look at the podcast transcript from earlier. We have to believe in our own agency in order to act. E.g. if I don't think I can safely cross a river, I'm not going to attempt it, even if it is only waste deep.
What idealism is that? I'm more of a pragmatist.
My original point was engaging in doomerism isn't useful for combating the climate situation and all but guarantees the worst case scenario.
Of course it is going to take some work. We also need debate and noise. For an example of people seeing results, Fox News has been very effective. Social media in particular has been used very effectively to influence behavior.
What is your reason for so strongly believing that you are right about this?
Thoughts lead to actions, of which inaction based on defeatist ideas literally encouraged by the fossil fuels industries is included.
This is literally idealism; the theory that political action comes from ideas.
Ideas matter, but they can only reinforce the structural and material base.