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this post was submitted on 08 Sep 2023
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I purposefully used the word 'incentives' and not logic/reason -- But still -- looking backwards through time and how separated we all used to be, this argument kind of falls apart for me. People appear to go along with things or change their minds all the time, within a life time.
How did Liberalism or progressivism begin? Why did Hammurabi ever write down laws if no one would follow them since they didnt' reason their current manner? How did all of our dad's go from the American values we grew up with to Fox News dads? Did they reason them into that and if not why doesn't your same rule apply to these?
I struggle to believe there's no theoretical solve. I agree it's likely not through logic, reason and data, but we could use logic and reason to plot a course of propaganda to move them away from Christian Fascism, just as the CF masterminds did in the opposite direction 30 years ago.
And, if there is no solve, I feel you must cede more suffering will follow for everyone. If 100 Million plus people identify with 'that side' and we decide to end persuasion, what other eventuality exists other than civil war 2? Are there examples in history of 'corralling' 33% of a population against their will politically or physically and not ending in revolt? If the CF wins, the same will be true for people that think like us, no?
Honestly, I have quit engaging in a lot of arguments with the other side too, for the same reasons you all cite, but I don't have rose colored glasses on that that makes me noble or sets our children up for a world with less suffering.
Thanks for the chat!
E: and more broadly, if a man can't be reasoned into something he did not reason into -- how did reason begin without a 2001 style obelisk or something?