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So let’s talk about this Wayland thing
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this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2023
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So I guess this means KDE will stop working on Nvidia GPUs with the Nvidia drivers.
No it means that a single distro won't, by default, use X11. You are free to install it yourself if you choose to use that specific distro.
It doesn't say anywhere that KDE won't support X11...
Also the fact that Nvidia works so badly in so many scenarios on linux is 80% of the fault of Nvidia, not KDE....
Wayland slowly start to work OK on NVidia.
Linux users need to stop buying nvidia.
How about we let Linux users do what they want?
They should stop wanting to buy NVidia. Thnn they can both do what they want and not buy it.
Why would you want to give your money to the one option that Linus says is the single worst company they've ever dealt with?
Because my life doesn't revolve around what Linus says?
Is that so hard to understand?
Do you have a vested interest in Nvidia or something?
No, I just don't base my purchasing decisions around whether some other person would like it or not.
People like you are the reason why the Linux community is viewed as elitist.
The reason I'm speaking up is that I am sick and tired of people buying nvidia and then bitching that it doesn't work. Not people who already had nvidia hardware or received it secondhand. People who keep buying nvidia laptops and cards and bitching that it doesn't work all the time, especially with the transition to Wayland.
I stated the reason that this is the case, confirmed by the leader of the kernel, and you're turning it into "I don't care what Linus thinks." It's not elitism. The fact is that nvidia doesn't care about Linux as much as Intel and AMD do. That's just facts. And there's no hope of this ever changing unless Linux users start boycotting nvidia.
Why do you care so much about those people? Why not just let them live with the consequences of their own actions?
As a Linux user, you will never be able to boycott Nvidia. Linux users make up about 3% of computer users. It won't matter to Nvidia if 3% of anything boycott their products.
Why are you so worried about people wanting to see this situation change for the better?
I'm not worried. I'm being realistic.
I've used Linux long enough to know that refusing to be complacent can lead to positive change. I've seen it firsthand.
We didn't always have such good hardware support on Linux. People refused to accept crappy binary blobs and ndiswrapper for other things, and won. Having the attitude that you don't want to listen to Linus because you love nvidia so much doesn't help.
Okay. I'd like to know how a boycott will lead to positive change.
According to Steam's latest hardware survey in August, Linux systems make up 1.82% of all hardware. I'd prefer to use this over the StatCounter statistic, since Steam's survey data more accurately represents Nvidia's target demographic for their graphics cards.
Let's say all Linux users start boycotting Nvidia. I will assume that 60% of them are already on AMD cards since as you've described, they have better Linux support.
So the remaining 40% of those 1.82% (approx. 0.73%) can now start boycotting Nvidia and lose them additional sales.
So of the 98.9% of the gamer demographic (100% - AMD Linux users) that Nvidia could market to, they would lose 0.73 / 98.9 = approx. 0.7% of their sales.
How can a boycott that lowers their sales by up to 0.7% at best improve hardware support? I get that each individual person will be improving their own situation by switching to a card with better support, but I don't understand how it will incentivize Nvidia to improve their Linux support.
Edit: Rectified some calc errors.
I've been using Linux since 2004. Back then, it didn't even have nearly the marketshare it does today, and Android didn't exist, but boycotts and protests have worked anyway. Many times. Even nvidia themselves changed their tune with their motherboard chipset drivers.
By your logic, all these hardware manufacturers should just give up and refuse to support Linux at all. It sounds like that's what you are advocating for.
You said that Linux users should boycott Nvidia. I'm asking you how that will incentivize Nvidia to improve their Linux support. Can you answer that question or can you not?
I've said numerous times that this has worked multiple times in the last 20 years I've dabbled with Linux. You refuse to listen and throw numbers and "I don't care what Linus thinks" at me. I'm done here.
It would help if you pointed towards specific incidents where a boycott was the direct cause of an improvement in Linux support.
@danielton
Some people don't have a choice. like laptops or computers they already own having Nvidia in it.
Again, you're not the target of my comments. I'm talking about people who continue to buy nvidia after switching to Linux, and then bitching that it doesn't work, especially with Wayland.
I’m guessing most linux users, like myself, that use Nvidia bought their hardware before switching.
Hence why I said to stop buying nvidia.
System76 and other Linux-first hardware OEMs still sell nvidia's garbage for some reason.
System76 is a Linux-first hardware OEM, but not open source first. Nvidia’s GPUs using proprietary drivers function almost as well as AMD’s open source drivers and have the added functionality with NVENC and Cuda. It really depends on your use case.
The problem is that those drivers are awful if you plan to keep your computer for more than a year or two. Most Linux-first OEMs are shipping Nvidia, not just System76. I've had two computers I got secondhand with Nvidia GPUs, and that damn GPU was the bane of my existence, and from what I'm seeing, that situation hasn't changed for the better at all.
Ideally, I would love to see things change, but it definitely seems like the majority of Linux users and OEMs are still using Nvidia GPUs, so Nvidia has no incentive to change.
If you can avoid buying Nvidia I’m in favor of it. AMD’s all around a more supportive company when it comes to Linux and Open Source. But some people are stuck relying on Nvidia for their hardware.
@DavidGA @n1729
Did you read the same blog post as me? Because that is not what that post is saying at all.
Yep we did read the same post.
Guys seem to miss that dropping X11 from Fedora KDE 40 is still under proposal.
@DavidGA if you read the blog, then this proposal is for Fedora 40 [KDE spin only].
@n1729
Fedora != KDE
Fedora KDE Spin != KDE
There is no proposal in KDE for abandoning X11.
Yeah, I'm aware of that.
Wayland works fine on Nvidia. And as long as NVidia is coddled with Xorg the longer they'll not bother with Wayland. About time they got their act together