this post was submitted on 21 Sep 2023
1401 points (97.4% liked)
Work Reform
9985 readers
139 users here now
A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.
Our Philosophies:
- All workers must be paid a living wage for their labor.
- Income inequality is the main cause of lower living standards.
- Workers must join together and fight back for what is rightfully theirs.
- We must not be divided and conquered. Workers gain the most when they focus on unifying issues.
Our Goals
- Higher wages for underpaid workers.
- Better worker representation, including but not limited to unions.
- Better and fewer working hours.
- Stimulating a massive wave of worker organizing in the United States and beyond.
- Organizing and supporting political causes and campaigns that put workers first.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
She got a job working in a corporate office for a big company. This is pretty typical of not-retail-worker-salary beating out public sector nine times out of ten.
Why would someone ever be a teacher for <50k? Anybody with an education background can move to Seattle, Washington (or other state close to big city pay) and be a corporate trainer and move up to a director level role and get paid many times what they would ever be paid as a teacher...
...except so many want to stay near family, not be near a big city, can't move because of xyz, want a couple months off each year.. etc etc etc.
To quote somebody: Schools should be palaces. The competition for the best teachers should be fierce. They should be making six-figure salaries. Schools should be incredibly expensive for government and absolutely free of charge to its citizens, just like national defense.
Just isn't that way today and there is a big political and economic mess in the way of getting there.
Educated young people overthrow governments. You do the math.
I would but there's no teachers so I don't know math
Mission accomplished
Uneducated people overthrow governments. Educated people involve themselves so they make a better, longer lasting, more stable and effective government in the long run.
There's this consistent delusion that if we just burn everything down and start anew that this time it will all work out for the best.
It hasn't worked for the past two millenia, it's not going to magically work now. All it does is give rise to new fascist states.
The French revolution is far from the most well-regarded outcome, & yet, I think it was preferable to no revolution, at the time... I agree that having a knowledgeable populace is essential to social stability.
The French Revolution led to Napoleon.
It was nice to get rid of one set of autocrats... but it just led directly into another. Its not like they traded up.
It did lead to one, but he didn't last forever, & again, I think it's pretty hard to argue they were better off before than after.
Castro was a lawyer as was Lenin. Che was a medical doctor.
But maybe educated young people will join the govt a well, and make it better, so that we will not want to overthrow the govt.
That's why we're seeing the rise of private schools and an increase in cost. The forces that be want only the "right" people to be properly educated.
They also want children to learn, which is the biggest thing that draws them to the job and gets them to accept shitty pay.
Teachers should get paid way more than they do.
The mess is allowing decades of union-busting to be effective. Teachers in my state of Victoria (Australia) are heavily unionised, so US$50k is the starting salary. You would absolutely be making what she is now, $64k, if you’d worked for 8yrs like she had.
Edit: And that’s just for public teaching jobs. Australia has way more private schools than the US and those pay even more. With 8yrs of experience it would be easy to get one of those positions and be making $70k.
Those salaries still sound far too low for a teacher, especially since, as I understand it, your dollar doesn't buy you guys as much as our (US) dollar, or is that just in electronics and video games?
Either way, the vice principal in The Breakfast Club cites that he's making $35,000 a year in 1985. I'll assume that's the higher end of the scale since he's admin, and has been teaching for years at that point. The thing is that adjusted for inflation that $35,000 is closer to $87,000 today. It's not just teachers either. No essential worker has had a raise since the early 1970s, in fact we've had pay cuts when you look at inflation, and expected productivity.
Edit: just noticed you specified US dollars, sorry.
It depends, some things are more expensive here. But for an example, Baldur’s Gate 3 retails at US$70 in the states, but US$57 (A$90) here. A brand new iPhone 15 Pro costs US$200 more here however.
The high end for a public school teacher is US$87k. But public school admin pays a lot more. The starting salary for an Assistant Principal is US$96k, and goes all the way up too US$147k on the high end for a Principal.
Finally, while we absolutely have a housing crisis going on, rent is still a lot cheaper here. I live in a three bedroom house in the suburbs of Melbourne. We have a backyard big enough for a few chooks, a dog and a cat. It’s a half hour’s train ride into the city centre. Our rental laws mean the landlord basically couldn’t say no to the animals. He also can’t terminate the lease without cause, and has limits on how much and how often the rent can be increased. We pay US$1260 (A$1955) a month. From what I’ve seen, it can cost $2000/month for a small apartment in a comparable city in the US.
Speaking of Unions actually, we have renter’s unions here that will help if you’re being fucked over and agitate for better rights. I pay A$12/year in dues and they’ve helped me out a few times when I’ve had a landlord trying to break the laws.
Sorry for the whole rant, I just have had people reply similarly before in a way that feels a bit dismissive. Thanks for the apology, and have a great day/night :)
Edit: Oh yeah, there’s also not having to spend money on essential medical care, that makes a big difference too.
Thanks for the breakdown. Sounds like you guys have it slightly better than we do, hopefully you can make some gains :)
I think I agree... but I'm sorry, I'm not used to using those items as a commodity value scale...
Can you express that as 18650 cells, please?
https://www.ausbatteries.com/product/1-x-panasonic-18650-lithium-battery
https://www.18650batterystore.com/en-au/products/panasonic-ncr18650b
For a set of 10 cells, you’re looking at A$150 (US$96) on the Aussie site, or US$89 on the American. Links are both for Panasonic NCR18650B cells.
Aw man, that's just enough difference to make me notice.
Now I've got a weird question purely out of curiosity: Do you know of any makers of black denim cotton work jeans, in loose fit that isn't stretch knit?
Wrangler & Levi seem to have decided that black jeans which fit over one's thighs, are not important enough to make in all sizes anymore... ?
You: likes star trek enough to make it part of your identity
Also You: goes into a worker reform community to start shit, wastes people’s time as if you’re a Ferengi
Are you one of those Star Trek fans that hates how Queer they made Discovery too?
What shit did I start? I agree 100% with the sentiment of this post's OP: Teachers moving to corporate marketing jobs just to get a survivable wage, is a tragedy of first order. The people who do our societies most vital work are not rewarded anywhere near commensurate with the importance of their work; hence my reading of this post.
I was joking about needing 18650 cells as a point of reference for pricing... mostly. I really don't have any sense of the prices of those other commodities you mentioned. Regardless, based on what you said, it seems like Australian teachers are better off than here, but still grossly undervalued?
And no, I hated the musical episode of Strange New Worlds because it wasn't up to my expectations based on their invoking of Buffy The Musical, but I loved most of Discovery & Stamets is freaking gold. I didn't really think they could top the engineering hijinks until Tig Notaro as Jet Reno was introduced. She's a treasure.
I have had good luck finding what should be basic essential goods from overseas brands, when the major US brands stop making them. I was unironically, seriously, asking if you or anyone here could suggest a brand of jeans that still comes in loose fit black, as that's literally all I can wear to work & need them for life as well. Sorry to derail the topic; I was leery of that, but Australia has good stuff sometimes so I figured I'd risk it!
25 years ago in my suburban Chicago public high school district, my stats teacher brought out the teacher pay schedule for us to play with.
There were six columns:
Bachelors, bachelors+30, bachelors+60 Masters, masters+30, masters+60
The +30 or +60 refer to credit hours of additional college coursework
Each row showed the number of years of experience.
In 1998, the upper-left (fresh out of college, no experience) salary was around $38,500 or something.
The bottom right (masters+60 or doctorate, and 30 or 35 years of experience [I forget]) was $151,000. And they got a great pension (fatter than what teachers in IL starting now will get).
You also got a small multiplier for each extra curricular you ran.
We had mostly excellent teachers as a result. Couple of duds too, but that's life. 70+% of graduating seniors went to college of some kind within two years. I believe I went to a good school.
But this is what happens when you fund schools through property taxes: the good neighborhoods get good schools, and it propels a virtuous cycle. The bad neighborhoods get bad schools, and they just spiral downward. It's a dumb way to fund education.
Teaching needs to be a cushy, highly competitive job with entry pay starting at 100k a year. It needs to attract the very best and brightest.
I see it as part of the contract between the government and the people. All citizens are asked to help plant trees they won't get to enjoy the shade of.
It's not a sell for the people who will have children. It's a sell for the children who will grow up under that education and have their job prospects determined by it. Hey - weren't you once a child?
But you will. We all benefit from a well-educated society. A poorly educated workforce isn't competitive with one that is well-educated, and they attract employers with jobs that can take advantage of them. They provide the work for good-paying jobs and drive the economy we're growing old in and hopefully retiring from someday.
Public education benefits everyone, not just the children.
I would say we need to do a full assessment of where our tax dollars are going. I feel we could find a lot of money to put towards the items that matter by cutting out government ineptitude.
You’re ignoring the massive amount of students on IEPs who require special services, as well as the fact that online education requires family support and motivation.
I live in Oklahoma. I make $40k/year teaching. I can not afford the up front cost of moving to Seattle. Long term I’d love to end up in a corporate job, but because teaching is so shit and a lot of people are leaving, transitional jobs are difficult to find.
Seattle was just TFA's literal job location.
You could move to Oklahoma City or Tulsa or something. If you can't save a few grand to move anywhere whatsoever i'd suggest getting a second job a couple nights a week or over the summer during break to make enough to do so. It's your livelihood anyway.
Today: What do you do when you need a new car to get to work and yours stops working from age? give up? walk many miles to work? assume the fetal position until death? I promise there is a possible way in this world to have enough to relocate, the only question is what you're willing to sacrifice to get it done. My wife lived on rice and beans for months while she saved up enough to afford tuition which ultimately made her income go from a few hundred dollars a month in another country to a little over a thousand. She learned English on her own and got a job that was a two hour commute from her home and made even more money. Now she makes over double what you do. I'm not saying it's easy, i'm not saying it's fair, i'm just saying it's possible.