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this post was submitted on 08 Oct 2023
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I strongly disagree with Israel's policies regarding settlements, Palestinians in general, etc.
That does not excuse Hamas or their terrorism
They're both kinda fucked really.
Israel is more fucked because they definitely have the resource to prevent this. How long can you deprive someone of their basic needs before their humanity is stripped away?
That only holds until you realize that Hamas are islamic jahadists. The latter are worse, no question.
Both are crimes under various international laws, some people seem to think you fight one by committing the other
Whats the altenative? Another generation of palestinians lost to the political whims of Netenyahu and the dehumanized at the hands of the far right while calmly waiting for the world to finally stop turning a blind eye? Can they start fighting back after they've been oppressed for 100 years or do we have to wait even longer?
Terrorism is not "fighting back." If they'd solely struck military targets, I would have significantly more empathy for them. I have 0 empathy for terrorism.
Goliath was in fact a soldier.
I get your point, but the consequences of this particular attack are almost certainly going to include a land invasion of Gaza, which will result in even more aggressive ethnic cleansing/genocide of the Palestinian people. But Israel has such disproportionate power in this situation that the only realistic way to halt the genocide is if Isreal decides to do it on its own, and that won't happen without significant international pressure (particularly from the US).
It would be far easier to win international support for the Palestinian cause if it was lead by progressive, democratic groups instead of a religious fundamentalist organization known for engaging in disproportionate violence against civilians (not even 2% of the level of violence Isreal has enacted to Palestine, but still).
Maybe Palestinians could try living in Jordan? Oh, Black September and all that happened.
Or maybe Lebanon would work? Oh, that's how we got Hezbollah, who has basically taken over Lebanon.
Maybe Egypt will open their doors to the Palestinians again? But then again, Rafah border crossing is almost always closed, because Egypt's de facto relationship with the Palestinians could be described as "we like you, but mostly because we hate Israel more".
I sympathize enormously with every normal Palestinian, but Mandatory Palestine will never be a thing again. The so-called State of Israel will continue to exist. It has been too long, and the only humanitarian hope for everyone involved is for Hamas and all related groups to accept defeat. But I don't see that happening, because the conflict isn't just over historical lands and freedom, but to eradicate all Zionists.
so be subjugated or die? That seems barbaric, not humanitarian.
"subjugated"? Don't be inane now. What's your solution, other than Hamas ceasing their terrorist attacks?
The solution would be to end the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank, and granting all Palestinians within those territories full citizenship, voting rights, and economic reparations for the hardship they suffered at the hands of the Israeli state.
Then you wouldn't have the desperate poverty and crowded ghettos that make people desperate enough to join Hamas to begin with.
Yes subjegated. Look up the definition. Don't be inane now.
The alternative would be a secular, progressive, democratic resistance to the occupation, it's a lot easier to win international support if you're not a bunch insane religious fundamentalists (Hamas, not the Palestinian people broadly). I agree with your sentiment 100%, I just don't think Hamas is an organization that's capable of freeing Palestine from Israeli occupation.
Especially since Netanyahu's government literally sent them money because a relatively strong Hamas makes it easier for him to justify the ongoing genocide/ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.