this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2023
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[–] qwamqwamqwam@sh.itjust.works 62 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Urim has been Israeli since the country came into existence, so I’m not really sure what you’re talking about. Unless your position is that all of Israel is occupied territory, in which case I invite you to take a look at what Palestinians did the moment they gained power over Jewish civilians and imagine that scene repeated across Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.

[–] Synnr@sopuli.xyz 25 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Urim has been Israeli since the country came into existence.

There's so much propaganda from both sides that I don't know what to believe about who, but Israel has only been a country since 1948 - that's after the invention of the Jeep, microwave ovens, Frisbees, jet aircraft, etc.

I'm not aware of the agreement made with Palestine for the land, but I've seen enough videos of Israelis near the border, both citizens and uniformed men, throwing Palestinians out of their houses so Israelis could live there. Not to mention the violent acts.

[–] DoomBot5@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm not aware of the agreement made with Palestine for the land

That's because it was owned by the British. Before them the Ottomans, Romans, and Israelites.

[–] snek@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

It was ruled by those. The lands were still owned by Palestinians. The farm lands my mother's family owned were given to them by the Ottomans very long ago to cultivate. Trey had since settled there and started a small town. In 1947/48 they were driven out at gunpoint. They had rifles and fought with them but not much beyond that. The entire family fled to Jordan, Syria, Kuwait, and some other places. I did a 23andMe test long ago, my mother's side is almost entirely Levantian, they are from that area and have been in that area since ages, never took anyone's lands, never hurt anyone. That's your average Palestinian family basically.

[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you want to lawyer around about historical shit, you can, and I can't stop you. But any decent human being with a fucking soul doesn't care for your pedantic bullshit when there's hundreds of innocent people dead on the ground.

[–] drekly@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)
[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I know. Hamas is bad at killing Israelis. But they keep trying it.

[–] DoomBot5@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They're also very good at using human shields.

[–] tryptaminev@feddit.de 6 points 1 year ago

If there is 6000 people in a square kilometre you can always blame the use of "human shields" to distract from the fact that you are bombing densely populated area and your "surgical strikes" are not that surgical.

[–] snek@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hmmm, there is more documented evidence of Israel using human shields (and having to make it "illegal" to keep using Palestinians as human shields but it still happens and many get away with it).

[–] DoomBot5@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hamas propaganda videos don't count as documented evidence.

[–] snek@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

No, it's not frim Hamas propaganda videos. It's every human rights organization.

Here is a full history of how they had to outlaw it: https://www.btselem.org/human_shields

It was part of Israel law. Totally legal.

[–] Synnr@sopuli.xyz -5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Ah, I'm "lawyering around about historical shit" (historical being within a lifetime) but I'm the one with a cold dead soul because hundreds of "the good people" who stole the land died, and you're the one with a heart of gold who thinks it's lol-worthy and likes to make jokes when tens of thousands of "the bad people" die fighting for their stolen land.

Let me know when you want to attempt to argue in good faith, because as I said from the beginning I'm not well educated on the subject, and your tactics are failing.

[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

And there you go, dehumanizing the victims and justifying their murder.

[–] Synnr@sopuli.xyz -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Are you trying to guess what my reply would be? If not, you seriously need to look in the mirror bud.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. They are horrific and should all be taken care of.. take that how you will. Palestinians and Israel is should be able to live in peace. This much is self evident and shouldn't be up for debate like you're trying to do.

But Israel lobbing back over bombs and killing innocent civilians is the Spider-Man pointing at himself meme.

[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago

Then the Gazans need to stop sheltering Hamas.

[–] drekly@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago

Sounds familiar

[–] snek@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago

The worst part of this graph is that it only goes back to 2008.

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

1948 is a tricky amount of time.

It's recent enough that the Palestinians still see the Israelis as recent occupiers, but far enough in the past that the Israelis have had several generations grow up there and see it as their home.

So the Israelis don't see themselves as occupiers while the Palestinians do.

A 1-state solution is impractical at this point, but a 2-state solution leaves them as bitter enemies with a shared border neither side agrees on.

It's a hopelessly fucked situation created by people who have been dead for decades, and I don't think anyone knows a clean way out of it.

The only solutions are for them to share the space, which is pretty much impossible given the hatred, for them to divide the space, which will keep them at way with each other, or to let one side or the other have it all and end up with millions displaced or killed.

But regardless of who is right and wrong and who should be allowed to live there and who shouldn't, I think we can all agree that murdering innocent civilians is wrong whether Israel is doing it or Hamas.

When Israel commits atrocities, they should be called out. When Hamas commits atrocities they should as well.

All of this brings to question whether or not the West should support Israel as one side. And that's a hard question to answer. The West created this situation, and really shouldn't just wash its hands of all responsibility.

As bad as Israel has been, the West can't really walk away because they would be genocided. It's been seen time and again that Iran, Hamas, Israel, Jordan, and others are perfectly happy to wipe them out.

I personally think that instead of supplying Israel with weapons the West should have boots on the ground as peacekeeping forces. They should protect Israel AND Palestine from attacks. By supplying Israel, the West is complicit in their attacks on Palestinians and in the establishment of illegal settlements.

[–] Synnr@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Damn, that is heavy and it really doesn't seem like there's any way for an eventual good peaceful outcome without a lot of bloodshed leading up to it.

Thank you for taking the time to educate me on the subject instead of getting into a keyboard war. You wear the halo this evening.

I think they’re saying that because it’s colonized territory and the native population was removed its occupied. So yeah basically arguing against the entire Jewish state. Not my argument just what that is sounding like.