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this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2023
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This is horrible, but please don’t let this trick you into some sort of “both sides are actually the same” mentality.
You’re right. They’re not the same. I don’t see the IDF parading naked bodies of European citizens while Israelis spit on them.
Its cause they do it to non-Europeans in Gaza or stand aside while settlers in the West Bank do it
…yeah, but they’re still the oppressor and have killed far more Palestinians than the other way around. Focussing on sensational stories like this to ignore the actual dynamics of oppression is exactly what I’m warning against.
Is killing 260 innocent civilians at a rave just a “sensational story” for you? You might want to reevaluate your moral compass there, buddy.
Many people were oppressed throughout history. Many more still are. Yet, I don’t seem to remember many of them enjoying themselves like Palestinians did with that poor German girl.
What’s crazy is that I was sympathetic to the Palestinian cause before this. After seeing all those videos, I can’t blame the IDF for turining Gaza into rubble. If my country was attacked the same way & the invaders did to innocent civilians what Hamas did, I would have been absolutely pissed at our army if they didn’t respond with overwhelming force.
I'm pretty sure Israel is still way ahead. Are their civilian casualties less horrific because it's people in homes and schools rather than a rave? The only correct moral judgement is that Hamas and the IDF are both committed to evil, and the IDF is just more capable.
But Hamas is now more current.
Israel is killing hundreds of civilians right now. How is that not current?
I agree, it is, as their response is now newer then the Hamas act.
What I mean, is that looking at historical deaths is misleading when Hamas have just killed hundreds 2 days ago.
Normally Hamas are real sweethearts. /s
Hmm yes, the oppressed people in the Gaza Strip have an interest in maintaining the status quo. I am very smart, yes.
Palestinians support Hamas because they want to see the apartheid state that oppresses them fall, not because they support the status quo lmao.
Yes, just like Mandela. And the political parties in Northern Ireland. And the USA after it’s civil war etc etc.
Hamas will try to legitimize, should a path forward be found. It is now less likely and further away. I expect Hamas is pretty much finished. Israel will use this as an excuse to obliterate the Palestinians with great force.
Yes let's all quote those elections done 16 years ago that lots of Palestinians couldn't even be part of and were never repeated to say stuff like "And Palestinians support Hamas". Let's generalize all the way to hell. Let's make it all black and white.
Sounds to me more like I'm one of those 47%
But no, let's take Brexit numbers and make them black or white.
All I said was that not all Palestinians support Hamas. This is factually correct. It is not something you can dispute.
Do you even read the things you post to me? Look at this
You are making big sweeping statements from an article that contradicts the polarity you are trying to display.
Edit: I just want to add, what a shitty tactic. "If you are really Palestinian"... yes, I'm really Palestinian. I'm registered at the UN as a Palestinian refugee with the right of return. I'm a fucking diaspora. There is no need to deny people their own heritage or identity because of a petty online argument. I've lived my early life in Jordan, surrounded by Palestinian and Jordanian families. I have Palestinian friends. I'm very well aware of Palestinians who support Hamas, and aware that it's not even close to everyone. I'm not stupid enough to generalize and run with it.
I never signed up for Lemmygrad nor do I seem to agree with their opinions. So why should I go there? Because I'm saying that not all Palestinians support Hamas? Like dude, I'm a Palestinian and I don't support Hamas. What do you want me to do in Lemmygrad?
Cool, revolution when? If 47% disagree, it should be pretty quick, that's well beyond the critical mass needed for a successful revolution. Until then don't claim that Palestinians don't support Hamas.
Do we think that every individual in Palestine supports them? No. Do we think Palestinians in general support them? Yes.
Come on, this is a generalization. It doesn't take two people to see this is a blanket statement. Do you agree it's a blanket statement?
If this is what you are trying to say, then you are both (1) bad at expressing it, and (2) incorrect.
(1) if this was your point form the start, why not say this instead of a blanket statement? and (2) where is the "in general" in a survey with an almost perfect split in the middle and with support for Hamas changing every year, increasing during times of conflict and trauma, and decreasing during times when Hamas is shit at managing Gaza as a residential area?
To reiterate:
No. That would be bad math and almost intentionally misreading the situation to polarize it.
Edit: I just want to comment on this part
So you've set a personally high bar for Palestinians, this is not a situation that is reasonable or would happen easily or would help us make any conclusion. This is like saying, "Israel in general supports Netanyahu because no one has started a revolution yet."
Now it starts to sound stupid, you see.
Does it, though? You might be mistaking me as someone who's on Israel's side or who's picking any side in this. My stance is that both sides suck and that yes, some revolution would be real nice on both sides.
Hamas and Bibi, not oppressed people.
It's quite extraordinary. I've never seen Islamists degrade women before.
The list of Israeli sins is long and wide my friend
That’s what I’m saying. Pro Israel people loooove bringing up stories like this to pretend Israel being a violent apartheid state is actually justified.
Hamas = Bad does not mean Israel can kill Palestinians. It all ends there.
Because Israel has indiscriminately killed far more Palestinians than Hamas has Israelis?