171
Italian uproar over judge's 10-second groping rule
(www.bbc.co.uk)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 13 Jul 2023
171 points (97.8% liked)
Europe
8484 readers
3 users here now
News/Interesting Stories/Beautiful Pictures from Europe 🇪🇺
(Current banner: Thunder mountain, Germany, 🇩🇪 ) Feel free to post submissions for banner pictures
Rules
(This list is obviously incomplete, but it will get expanded when necessary)
- Be nice to each other (e.g. No direct insults against each other);
- No racism, antisemitism, dehumanisation of minorities or glorification of National Socialism allowed;
- No posts linking to mis-information funded by foreign states or billionaires.
Also check out !yurop@lemm.ee
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
As an Italian, I feel truly ashamed. There is another case on the news in these days concerning the reduction of the sentence for a man who killed and torn to pieces his ex girlfriend due to "his being very affectionate but her being too libertine". What has gone wrong with this country?
How are these kind of stories received by the general public?
Do you get the sense that the acceptance of this behavior is pushed on the public from above, or is this genuinely what large parts of the population consider OK?
The one about the "10-seconds rule" for sexual harassment generated a flood of ironic videos on TikTok and was in general received very badly by younger generations because the girl was "one of them" and they could relate. The other one is received with total indifference. Plus there's another: the son of the president of the Senate has been accused of rape and his father publicly declared that she was on drug/she waited 40 days to "remember" and sue the complaint so she is unreliable. All in a very short amount of time. To me it's a generational clash, unfortunately the younger don't have right to vote (and if they do they don't go voting) and the ones who rule are white/male chauvinists.
https://news.italy24.press/local/625075.html
let's try a different one
Yes we have it and it's called "carcerazione preventiva" but it applies before the sentence has been issued to prevent reiteration of the crime or further damages to society while waiting for the final pronunciation.
Very unlikely. You don't get Sicherheitsverwahrung unless you're proven to be an extreme danger to the public in general. If you murder someone for specific reasons that's unlikely. Hence typically you'll need a long history of violent crime to get it, a single incident, regardless how brutal, rarely cuts it. We have some 600 people in Sicherheitsverfahrung in the entire country but some 700 homicides per year and tens thousands of non-fatal crimes that can be bad enough to warrant Sicherheitsverwahrung.
In Germany the guy would likely have gotten a life sentence (i.e. a possibility of probation after 15 years) but not why you think. Jealousy isn't necessarily a "niederer Beweggrund" / abject motive here either. If you kill for that you can get away with manslaughter. Here however the perpetrator used a state of helplessness and therefore meets the Mordmerkmal/ murder trait Heimtücke/treachery.
If you just shoot your spouse in the face after they told you they were leaving, you do stand a very good chance of getting away with manslaughter in Germany. I.e. 15-years max.
The German (and apparently also Italian) murder laws need to be reformed (e.g. in Germany babies are harder to murder because Heimtücke needs to be unsuspecting by choice but babies are inherently unsuspecting), but people getting comperatively low sentences for homicides committed in situations like breakups does make sense. It's scenario where people are highly emotional and less capable of thinking straight. Hence punishing them less harshly than people who do for example murder someone because they get paid to to so is how the law is supposed to work. The more sound your state of mind was, the more culpable you are. Punishments in our legal systems aren't about retribution, they're about influencing decisions so that crime is an objectively bad idea. Therefore it doesn't matter that much how bad the outcome was, it matters what decisions perpetrator made.
Well, in Germany Graumsamkeit/cruelty is a murder attribute as well, so I'm indeed. and it seems to work similarly in Italy. But as always it's the intend that matters. I.e. you need to want to make your victim suffer. If you're merely bad at killing people that won't be held against you. I'm not quite sure why the judges didn't find cruelty, but the articles I can find appear to be all machine translated so I'm not sure how much actually was done while the perpetrator believed his victim to be alive. Keep in mind that the court needs to prove intend here. That's easy if the perpetrator prepared the crime by buying a lot of acid or a poison that is know to cause suffering, but for hands-on crimes it's hard.
Anything done do a dead boy is negligible here. Dead bodies can't suffer and are pretty much just things legally. Not treating them with dignity is illegal, but it's not a serious crime at all.