this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2023
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Analysts have warned Windows 10 end of life plans could spark a global torrent of e-waste, with millions of devices expected to be scrapped in the coming years. 

Research from Canalys shows that up to 240 million PCs globally could be terminated as a result of the shift over to Windows 11, raising critical questions about device refreshes and the responsibility of vendors to extend life cycles.

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[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 34 points 10 months ago (86 children)

People are mad at MS for being MS. MS isn't great, Windows is flawed, and there should be better alternatives. People would be quick to move to Linux if it worked for them. Most desktops now are for gaming. Most gamers have Nvidia. Linux famously has issues with Nvidia because 90% of the distros out there decided to jump on to Wayland before it was even half done. If that's the state of Linux where my 8-year-old Windows 10 machine still gets updates regularly and runs fine. Windows 10 will actively prevent you from trying to upgrade and bricking your system whereas Linux is absolutely like "Go ahead, hope you read all the patch notes for the 1000s different updates you are about to get!" Most people will go with Windows because Linux doesn't work for them.

Overall Linux has the power to be good, it just doesn't have the community will power to do so.

[–] SciPiTie@iusearchlinux.fyi 27 points 10 months ago (1 children)

How the narrative has turned Nvidias active sabotage into Linux maintainers fault is beyond me.

Latest for their reluctance to act on scalpers it should be transparent what you're getting into with Nvidia.

And then people like you write thing like this... Why?!

[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 9 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Nvidia works fine on X11. You might say it's Nvidia's fault for not supporting Wayland more or not having open drivers but the truth is, it doesn't truly matter. What matters is the end result.

[–] navigatron@beehaw.org 11 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Wanna come configure optimus for me?

[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 3 points 10 months ago (3 children)
[–] psudo@beehaw.org 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I think the disconnect here is that others are saying "they aren't supporting us," and your response is pretty much "lol, abandon what you're doing and go back to the corporations." A totally fair take, but how you're delivering it comes across as missing their point.

Also "it works on windows" is a terrible rebuttal in a discussion where you first say "it works fine on x11"

[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 3 points 10 months ago

I think the disconnect here is that others are saying “they aren’t supporting us,” and your response is pretty much “lol, abandon what you’re doing and go back to the corporations.”

My point is that Linux does nothing to make it easy to support. Nvidia even has made an open source kernel driver. https://github.com/NVIDIA/open-gpu-kernel-modules Nvidia is doing a lot of work to support Linux and people don't seem to see it.

Also “it works on windows” is a terrible rebuttal in a discussion where you first say “it works fine on x11”

A question to configure Nvidia Optimus is also a terrible rebuttal in the first place. Optimus is blocked because Linux kernel doesn't want proprietary blobs. AMD has the same exact issue.

[–] Tau@sopuli.xyz 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The problem is that nvidia's drivers are shit but we couldn't do anything because for the longest time, for nvidia cards to work at a decent speed, it requires the drivers to be signed by nvidia.

We couldn't do anything and you are blaming us for that.

Now that this, AFAIK, has been lifted new things like NVK are emerging.

The problem has been reluctance abd uncooperativeness from nvidia, not the linux community

[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 1 points 10 months ago

I'm not blaming any Linux users for that. I'm saying this is the trade-offs of Linux and they are unacceptable to most people.

[–] WeLoveCastingSpellz@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)
[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 1 points 10 months ago

So really a moot point, isn't it?

[–] WeLoveCastingSpellz@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

on my nvidia linux laptop it works perfectly, thank you very much. (if you actually need help I can)

[–] SciPiTie@iusearchlinux.fyi 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The cause is what should matter because that's what could influence future decisions.

And there is no Wayland mandate anyway so I don't understand that side of the argument either - there is no "Linux" in this room who decided to switch...

[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

So then Linux as a community needs to foster better working relations and funding for developers to get major things working on their platform.

there is no “Linux” in this room who decided to switch…

No, it's more of a community hivemind which is part of the issue. A hivemind can act together for the most part but it increasingly becomes hard to have direction on a hivemind. It goes where it wants, you can't direct it but only offer it paths. So the majority of Linux users seem to want to scream that Linux is fine to use for common users while also saying "Well we don't need to be a majority OS anyways, we shouldn't invest time into trying to become one." Any feedback actual users give to Linux communities ends up like this discussion, just filled with excuses or remarks that the user is holding it wrong. Using the wrong hardware, using the wrong distro, not being knowledgeable enough. Yet they do nothing to resolve those issues.

So regarding this part:

that’s what could influence future decisions.

I don't think anything can do that. Linux future decisions aren't influenceable except by contributors and they do what they want without really being able to tell them that the OS they've contributed to is somehow broken.

[–] SciPiTie@iusearchlinux.fyi 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

See and that's what's backwards from my point of view. Even though I was on win mainly back then I refused to buy Nvidia because of their shitty practices.

I'm talking about your and my behavior not about anyone else. :)

[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Cool, AMD also isn't a saint: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_FX#Controversy https://www.pcgamer.com/starfield-partners-with-amd-and-oh-boy-the-internet-is-not-happy/ every major company has it's issues. I don't hate AMD, I'd probably still buy them if I found them as good as Nvidia but overall I don't. They still do some shady stuff like blocking rival upscalers or straight-up lying to customers.

So if you base your opinion of a company around one thing, that's fine. More power to you. I see these large corporate hardware overlords as all the same and work with what makes my life easier.

[–] SciPiTie@iusearchlinux.fyi 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

My base opinion is flexibility. You blamed first Linux then Wayland now you're what about AMD... What's YOUR point?

You can stick with windows and Nvidia your whole life all I ask is not spread your bullshit from your OP.

[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

My point is every large piece of tech is flawed and you have to find what you can work with. My original comment (not post, btw) isn't bullshit and if you want to insult people, go to a different instance. This is beehaw, Be nice. I'm not going to carry on a conversation with you calling names and acting clearly in bad faith. If you don't like my opinion, don't engage but I am able to have a my reasonable opinion about software.

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