this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2023
658 points (97.4% liked)

World News

39082 readers
3076 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] hydrospanner@lemmy.world 29 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I don't necessarily disagree, but this brings up the next round of tough questions:

If your bodily autonomy is absolute, fine, but what happens when your choices and their impact start to spill beyond your own personal life?

If you want to go wild with hard drugs, okay fine, whatever. But when you need medical attention because of that decision, should insurance providers or the state be obligated to spend in order to treat you?

When your addiction costs you your job and support network, should the collective taxpayer have to subsidize your poor life choices?

I don't mind the notion that individuals should have final say over what happens to their bodies, but that sort of assumption of responsibility, at some point, cuts both ways...and the flip side of some of these decisions would suggest that the individual should bear all consequences of their decisions...which seems unlikely in practice. We're not going to see an addict rushed to an ER and the hospital toss them out into the street saying, "This was your decision! Sorry!"

And the mitigation measures seem equally unlikely to fly with the "strict bodily autonomy" crowd: increased insurance premiums or exception clauses in policies in order to keep expenses reined in for the rest of the policy holders/taxpayers who aren't using their strict autonomy in a way that adversely affects others.

While it's fine to conceptually discuss these decisions in a vacuum where it only affects the individual, in real life application, these decisions have impacts outside the individual in almost every case, which fundamentally shift the discussion.

[–] plumbercraic@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

I struggle with this line of thinking because there are so many legal things people can do to increase their probability of being a burden in the national healthcare system. Alcohol, junk food, working too much, gambling too maybe. I can't wrap my head around a system that would be "fair" and not fall into a black mirror episode dystopian "good citizen" points system. I'd rather just pay more than my fair share, knowingly subsidise people who make bad choices, and not live in the dystopian society.

Theres a separate argument about the drugs increasing crime probability that I also don't buy entirely. Those crimes are crimes already, so making these other "precrimes" also crimes seems a bit weird - not to mention wildly ineffective at reducing harm or use of the substances in question. I'm sure we can identify books and films that increase future criminal probability too.

Bodily autonomy does hold some water for me as an argument, but for me it's more about finding a way to minimise societal harm while maximally hurting the businesses profiting from these dark economies we have created through prohibition. But this brings up another round of tough questions: do we do this for all substances? Forever? Is this really the path of least societal harm? (I honestly don't know)