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felipeforte@lemmygrad.ml

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Discussion about socialist market economy. Does socialism have commodity production? Is China a capitalist country because it has commodity production? (en.prolewiki.org)

submitted 2 years ago by felipeforte@lemmygrad.ml to c/prolewiki@lemmygrad.ml

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[–] Wisconcom@lemmygrad.ml -1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

What you said is a complete mischaracterisation of Enver Hoxha and Hoxhaism.

The People's Republic of China has taken an openly Anti-Marxist path, selling out its people to Western Megacorporations, and adopting bourgeois-nationalism as part of its ideology.

Enver Hoxha never claimed to be the only "true" Marxist, nor do Hoxhaists claim that the People's Socialist Republic of Albania was the only true Socialist State.

Saying that:

Marxism is unchanging and rigid and no one can ever do anything different based on their country’s material conditions and circumstances. If a country ever makes mistakes, does anything I personal disagree with, it is an evil revisionist capitalist hellscape.*

Is false, considering that Hoxhaists fundimetally oppose the imperialism of NATO and uphold national self-determination.

And lastly claiming that:

The US and the west are evil, but I utilize their information channels for all of my opinions of other countries, or I base all my opinions on purist infighting from the 1970s and won’t ever accept that there may be alternate paths to the same goal. You are stupid and wrong for having a different opinion than me, revisionist pig.

Is utterly false. Everything I said is based on empirical information, not what the State Department said. You can use information, not based off Western-sources, to prove the large existance of billionaires in the PRC government and the Communist Party of China. You can prove that the SOEs only make up less than 25% of the economy, and so on. I am simply adhering to Revolutionary defeatism.

[–] Samubai@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Everything I said is based on empirical information, not what the State Department said.

Okay. Provide the sources. Link how it is that China is not socialist or communist. Second, address the other points which you have conveniently neglected. You can’t just cherry-pick and think to get away with addressing half the points brought up.

Lastly, why are you even on lemmygrad? if you hate the user base so much, why submit yourself to this? Most people here are not Hoxhaists. Get over it. Like, you haven’t even explained things well, or made a convincing argument for yourself. It’s all naysaying. Aka a waste of time. You don’t even like Mao. Petty bourgeois? Lenin was petty bourgeois, and Marx! Don’t even get me started on Engles, or Guevara or Castro!

Get outta here with that nonsense.

[–] Wisconcom@lemmygrad.ml -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

You need not look further then the constitution, the fundamental law, of the People's Republic of China itself. During the 10th National People's Congress, held in 2004, it was decided that private (bourgeois) property should be both allowed and enforced by the "Communist" party. For example, it says, I quote:

legally obtained private property of the citizens shall not be violated

Private ownership of the means of production is legally enforced by the Communist Party, how Socialist.

Do you want sources for all the billionaires? let me present them:

https://www.rt.com/business/553679-shenzhen-china-billionaires-number/

https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-04-06/China-has-more-billionaires-than-ever-Forbes-ZffqU7Mmbe/index.html

https://news.cgtn.com/news/3d3d774d774d544d30457a6333566d54/index.html

https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-10-20/Stock-market-boom-new-listings-mint-China-billionaires-at-record-pace-UKyamY6s9i/index.html

As to your claim that I am "cherry-picking", that is false. As I have already said, people such as Guo Wengui are very rare. Geo Wengui commited very major crimes to get such as treatment. However, I must once again ask you something; Why does China have billionaires in the first place? Billionaires are not useful for economic growth, they are greedy, selfish, and care about exploiting their labourers. China could, with ease, achive the same, if not more, economic growth with a centrally planned economy. They do not need billionaires, let alone have atleast 100 billionaires in major government posts.

I am on Lemmygrad, particularly this part of Lemmygrad, because I thought I could get an intellectually meaningful discussion with fellow Marxists. I do not hate Dengists (which clearly seems to be an omnipresent ideology here), one of the reasons why I was so invested in this discussion was to help Dengists and other revisionists understand their Capitalistic and Anti-Marxist theory. Of course, now that I see how deeply Revisionist this community is, I have realised that this is rather futile - You Revisionists really think that Billionaires is Socialism, abusing Proletarians is Socialist in character, and selling guns to Anti-Communist governments to murder Communists is Spreading the Revolution. You Dengists use so many complex mental gymnastics to defend a clearly Capitalist state, I was not expecting this, I confess.