You can have industrialized production and consumerism without capitalism. Not that I'm defending capitalism, I just think our problem is deeper than what you make it, and human nature combined with unchecked technological ability to remodel out planet would yield the same outcome, no matter the dominant flavor of our economical structure.

[–] AlbigensianGhoul@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I'd recommend looking into how indigenous people have historically dealt and wish to deal with climate change before claiming much about "human nature". A lot of so-called "human nature" is just the universalisation of European capitalist values. I suggest starting by reading about the Red Deal, specially if you're from the USA.

[–] u_tamtam@programming.dev 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Although interesting, I don't think your link is the gotcha counterexample you think it is. Previous civilizations caused environmental collapses without having capitalism to blame for it. We could switch overnight to soviet style communism and that would not solve anything if our expectation is to provide everyone on earth with their today's living standards. We could blame greed, selfishness and that would take us closer to the truth, but even that would be very shortsighted. We would need all humans on earth to be united around a same goal and same path forward, and share the same willingness to sacrifice. No sect or religion has ever achieved that and never will (we are just so many, and spread that wide).

Looking at the world from the lens of an economic ideology alone only gets you so far. Wrong tool for the job.

[–] AlbigensianGhoul@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (13 children)

Not sure what you're talking about on "sect or religion" when referring to different cultures doing things differently. The link is not some "gotcha" Reddit moment, it is a good source for you and others to start questioning this notion of "human nature" given that lots of humans have been questioning this very same "human nature" dogma since it was imposed on them by Europeans starting 500 years ago and continuing to this day. Notably you shifted the discussion to talk about the Soviet Union, which has nothing to do with my point and doesn't even exist anymore. Just because nameless "previous civilisations" caused uncited "environmental collapses", doesn't mean that every civilization works by the same rule. Specially considering this current environmental catastrophe is on a whole different level and we have current day civilizations that would love to prevent it, if only they got their Land Back.

Mind telling me what this One Goal of yours might be and how it could be possible within capitalism? The ones who have the most to sacrifice are those at the top, ghettoised minorities will go mostly unharmed in most actually practical solutions.

Looking at the world while compartmentalising the overarching mode of production will only get you solutions from that overarching mode of production. You were quick to dismiss it as the wrong tool, but what is the right tool then?

[–] treefrog@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The power of parternship is another good resource for breaking the notion that humans are just greedy and domineering by nature. A Western myth used to justify Western harms, not the truth of human nature.

[–] AlbigensianGhoul@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 1 year ago

We're on a open source website built almost exclusively to build spaces for communities with barely any profit, and people come here to tell us that greed is what motivates people. Frankly bizarre.

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[–] andy_wijaya_med@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Capitalism can not solve shit.

[–] riodoro1@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

It can only provide record profits. Thats its only goal.

[–] krzschlss@lemmy.fmhy.ml 5 points 1 year ago

a quick fix: Capitalism -doesn't want to- solve the climate change :(

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