this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2023
1930 points (100.0% liked)
196
16508 readers
2358 users here now
Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.
Rule: You must post before you leave.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I was left leaning when I was younger and a lot of that was due to left leaning people on the internet.
As I got older my views haven't changed that much but I definitely feel like the left have caused me to move further to the right. I still heavily believe in high government spending for essentials and free speech (which was a strong left view but is now a far right view). But I definitely see the left skewing the narrative. Things like if you are against open border policies you are a nazi and shit. Day to day conversations with the right are much more manageable and logical than conversations with the everyday left. But the big policies need to be left.
I wish there was some middle ground. Or more accurately a mixture of far left and left with a mixture of right and far right policies. But the left are shooting themselves in foot with a lot of little stuff and ignoring a lot of the big stuff that people care about.
You're describing a tiny small minority of the left, if there's anyone who seriously thinks that. It seems like you're cherry picking radical positions that the majority of the left don't hold.
I remember when that photo of that dead kid on the beach was everywhere. There was plenty of people talking about open borders.
People we definitely called racist for having the view we should stop illegal migrants and/or that some people are benefiting from the situation. People definitely also called for open borders and have have spoken to a few people in university who thinks all borders should be open. But it's usually someone with something like a media degree and no follow through for how it would work in practise just that "there shouldn't be borders and it's racist to not let people come to your country"
Wut
What right wing policies are actually better than their left wing alternative? Enlighten me.
Yeah like "free speech" being a "far right" thing, while simultaneously trying to stop people from talking about LGBTQ+ issues.
Meanwhile the left is doing what that's against free speech? You can say bigoted things all you want still as far as I know. It'll affect what people think of you as a person, but that's not what free speech is about.
This person is a lost cause.
Not many. Borders, military, maybe some protectionist policies, freer trade, some cost saving but not many. That's my point.
Sounds like the Democratic party is a perfect home for you. The Biden administration is center right on the border (in practical terms), the military, and trade. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "cost saving," other than balancing the budget and trying to be efficient with tax dollars, things the democrats are doing way better on than Republicans. The party is built for your sensibilities. If you're an American, your view is the one in control of the politically relevant non fascist party.
The American democrats seem too right for my liking. The party definitely isn't perfect for me.
Hello fellow libruls!
Please elaborate
https://tinyurl.com/Tell-Us-More
Okay fine.
From a starting point I feel everyone should have an equal start in life (to a point). So for example everyone that is born should have free healthcare and be able to get whatever job they want as long as they have the ability. That's my core left view.
Secondly. I have a degree in economics and that educates some of my views to be more monetarily and free market orientated. So I'm big on cash transfers where someone else might go for say free food stamps. But overriding that I believe governments should focus more on happiness and wellbeing than GDP or GDP per capita. That's in contrast to my education, or typical takeaways from my education.
My policies would be high government spending, high taxes and cash transfers, subsidies and externalities to fix market issues and help push things into certain ideals.
That means I see myself and left or heavily left leaning. But I'm still proud of my country and think my country comes above others with my money and the money of my countrymen. Which is the right policies I wish more for in a left leaning party. I also feel like people are more responsible for themselves than some people make out.
The issue I find is when talking to the average right winger verse the average left winger.
I have had discussions with people saying they don't think university education should be free or subsidised because if it's valuable they people can take out loans themselves or if someone works hard they can gift it to their children. Someone shouldn't have to give their money so someone else's kid can go to university for free. Now I don't agree but I understand the point and respect their arguments.
On a similar issue I have talked to left wingers who have said all jobs should pay the same, or that men and women should be paid the same irrelevant of what jobs they have. That it's not fair that one degree gets you higher paying life than others. Something like this I do not agree with and do not understand.
It's basically the logic of right wingers make sense but I disagree. The logic of left wingers doesn't make sense but I still agree a lot with them for different reasons.
Even things like COVID. I was huge into vaccines and science and got it as soon as I could, did everything the government told me I was behind it 100%. But I still agreed with the right wingers than any anticovid views should be allowed. I just thought the government should have done better in educating people on the truth.
Ultimately it comes down to my personal experience in dealing with people. In my experience left wingers talk a lot more nonsense and get a lot more aggressive than right wingers.
My dude, I consider myself pretty liberal. For quick context: I think Joe Biden and the establishment stole the 2020 primary from Bernie Sanders, and I haven't been gruntled since.
I agree with every point you made, explaining your political opinions.
The only things that I want to say are that being liberal and being proud of your country are not mutually exclusive. That's a media propaganda talking point. "Liberals hate America!" - That's just not true. Also, it sounds like you had a conversation about pay rates with an actual communist. Very few liberals are going to support actual communism. That's another propaganda talking point.
Liberalism and democratic socialism is nowhere near communism. Democratic socialism supports the things you expressed support for: Social safety net programs, funding education, social medicine.
We all have more in common than we're led to believe.
I met a lot of left people that just spew talking points and choose whatever is the nicest view to have. They wouldn't say they are communist but they say stuff that is partially communist. Then make out everyone is heartless monsters. A lot of people recently were complaining about supermarkets making 1% profit margin. Saying it's too much, like loads of left wingers had this view and said they should be government owned. It's madness.
I'm not American. Also I'm not that liberal at all, one of our most right wing governments ever was famously liberal and sold every government asset and let the free market deal with everything. There is a reason ding dong the witch is dead hit 1 in the charts when Maggie died. Liberalism is not anything the left or most of the right ever want back.
Socialism is communism though. That's the definition of the word.
Socialism "...advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole"
Practically speaking, all acceptable political ideologies in a liberal democracy could be considered liberal, or at the very least on the liberal spectrum. Liberalism is such a broad ideology, that both hyper religious neocon neoliberals and democratic socialists could qualify. Economic liberalism is typically what liberal has colloquially meant outside the US, while in the US, it has referred to social liberalism. Thatcher and Reagan had very similar ideologies, but Thatcher called herself a liberal, while to 1980s Republicans, liberal was a dirty word. It's a fucky term, but if you're a Brit who loves your country, you probably love liberalism in some way.
Democratic socialists are fiscally socialist, but still want to work within the system of liberal democracy to eventually achieve communism. "Communist" colloquially refers to people who want to achieve communism without working through liberal democracy. This includes everything from Marxist-Leninists(think the Soviets), to anarcho-communists, both of which wildly disagree with eachother. The landscape is full of people of don't self identify accurately to what they ideologically believe because of the colloquial meaning of these terms.
Also, you are exceptionally lucky to have not run into fascists. If you actually exposed yourself to the double speak and misinformation they use to justify right wing beliefs, you too might lose faith in all right wing arguments like I have.
I apologize for making the assumption that you were American.
Its my understanding that even liberal american politicians are rather conservative, from a global perspective. This is probably the source of my confusion in our exchange.
But I agree with you that many people complain and are jealous when they see others being prosperous when they struggle to thrive. Also, people seem to just like to complain in general.
Here's a section that I found from a website, on democratic socialism:
" In the present day, "Democratic socialist" and "socialist" are often treated as interchangeable terms, which can be confusing given democratic socialists don't necessarily think the government should immediately take control of all aspects of the economy.
They do, however, generally believe the government should help provide for people's most basic needs and help all people have an equal chance at achieving success. "
I think in this context, democratic socialists are just in support of government having more influence in business, strengthening unions and worker protections, addressing the massive wealth inequality. The current american government is really more on the side of business than on the side of workers.