this post was submitted on 04 Feb 2024

577 points (94.0% liked)

News

23259 readers

3266 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil

Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.

2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.

Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.

3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.

Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.

4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.

Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.

5. Only recent news is allowed.

Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.

6. All posts must be news articles.

No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.

7. No duplicate posts.

If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.

8. Misinformation is prohibited.

Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.

9. No link shorteners.

The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.

10. Don't copy entire article in your post body

For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

rjc@lemmy.world

Thekingoflorda@lemmy.world

dezmd@lemmy.world

Tenthrow@lemmy.world

JonsJava@lemmy.world

gedaliyah@lemmy.world

Blackbeard@lemmy.world

little_cow@lemmy.world

jeffw@lemmy.world

enu@lemmy.world

577

‘Andrew Tate is a symptom, not the problem’: why young men are turning against feminism (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 9 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

405 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Teachers describe a deterioration in behaviour and attitudes that has proved to be fertile terrain for misogynistic influencers

“As soon as I mention feminism, you can feel the shift in the room; they’re shuffling in their seats.” Mike Nicholson holds workshops with teenage boys about the challenges of impending manhood. Standing up for the sisterhood, it seems, is the last thing on their minds.

When Nicholson says he is a feminist himself, “I can see them look at me, like, ‘I used to like you.’”

Once Nicholson, whose programme is called Progressive Masculinity, unpacks the fact that feminism means equal rights and opportunities for women, many of the boys with whom he works are won over.

“A lot of it is bred from misunderstanding and how the word is smeared,” he says.

But he is battling against what he calls a “dominance-based model” of masculinity. “These old-fashioned, regressive ideas are having a renaissance, through your masculinity influencers – your grifters, like Andrew Tate.”

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

[+] GBU_28@lemm.ee -10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I see feminism as a logical first step towards true egalitarianism. As in: the patriarchy is/was a real thing, and women are/were impacted. Modern feminism is in some ways an over correction (but as a movement is completely justified). Hopefully future societies will bring the needle closer to even/fair/just than ever, and we are currently witnessing temporary (but significant) backlashes.

Edit: not sure why downvote? I clearly acknowledged the importance and validity of feminism, while sharing my opinion that an egalitarian society is the goal state, where all persons are respected regardless of what they are. Is that not the goal? To live in a world where specific groups don't need to fight for rights, visibility and respect?

[–] maynarkh@feddit.nl 15 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Not the person downvoting, but my comment was mostly about that boys and men do experience their own problems, and they are not being listened to. I am specifically saying "feminism is all good, but has nothing to do with this, and does not even aim to solve this".

You then went, "well yeah, but first feminism before we get there". It's like as if there was a piece about feminism and someone went, "First we have to solve climate change, then we can talk about women's issues!". The problem is that men are getting left behind. Not with rights or visibility or anything like that. It's more about having a voice, ideals and support.

The point is, this is not about feminism. Feminism is not a be all end all answer. And people keep pretending it is.

[+] GBU_28@lemm.ee -8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Feminism is not the end all be all is the core of my point as well.

I referred to the current backlash of boys seeking people like tate as a symptom of ongoing progress towards a more egalitarian future.

[–] maynarkh@feddit.nl 14 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The whole thing is that this is not about feminism in any way. Viewing these boys' problems only through a lens of "how does this relate to feminism" is the problem. These boys' problems are not about feminism. This is not about women or women's issues.

The reason it becomes that is that both the right, which only listens to them to exploit them, and the left, which refuses to listen to them at all, says that their problems are about women.

Men and men's issues exist outside of the context of feminism as well.

[+] GBU_28@lemm.ee -9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Right! And it would be great to arrive at a societal level where we address everyone's needs!

Due to obvious reasons, the challenges of feminism are center stage currently.

I'm talking about decades long societal progress, where we arrive at a place where everyone is getting their needs met. We aren't advanced enough in our education or discourse or healthcare to provide that to everyone at once.

[–] BaldProphet@kbin.social 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

What I'm hearing from you is that men are a desirable sacrifice on the altar of equality.

You're risking serious social stability problems by justifying the ignoring of men's issues. There can be no equality as long as the problems of one sex are more important than the problems of the other.

[–] GBU_28@lemm.ee -3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Absolutely untrue. You are assuming my opinion, when I'm stating my observation.

I'm not ignoring men's issues, or suggesting that is good to do. In fact, I'm saying/agreeing it's absolutely true that men are currently being forgotten.

I'm saying humanity is not unified. Social respect is a system in hysteresis. A pendulum swinging. There is no eternal agenda, but hopefully a trend towards a healthy center. Previously, women and minorities were forgotten. Now, in a different way (and not surpassing the injustice.of the past, but still critically Important), men are not being discussed to a sufficient level.

I hope the future frees us of this. I am discussing decades past. And decades future