in summer 2023, when I moved here from reddit, the lemmy instance beehaw.org was extremely divisive. they wanted to create a website according to certain rules rather than a free for all. some people were saying it would be the end of the threadiverse before it even began.

since that time, there have been various other intrinsic and extrinsic threats. I do not see much panicking about beehaw. did the threadiverse survive beehaw? or is this only a shell of what we might have had otherwise?

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[–] AnalogyAddict@lemmy.world 28 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (11 children)

I liked the idea of Beehaw, but it ended up being rather like an HOA. You weren't allowed to ever disagree, no matter how gently, because it "wasn't nice." They ironically tried to reduce bullying by bullying people.

Ended up with a bunch of Karens policing each other, so I think that's a win for all.

[–] cashews_best_nut@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago (10 children)

Lemmy.ml is just as bad. I suggested Nicaragua wasn't a democratic country. Holy shit!! I got downvoted to hell, pasted left and right. Given 24hr ban.

Then I got a 4-day ban cos I suggested "Tankies give socialists like me a bad name". Fucking hell fire. I'm not going near any of their subs again.

[–] doidera 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I got downvoted to hell

What's wrong with downvoting? Ain't it expected when the community allow downvotes?
Do you think everyone should agree with you always?

Then I got a 4-day ban cos I suggested “Tankies give socialists like me a bad name”. Fucking hell fire. I’m not going near any of their subs again.

I am curious, what current of socialism do you subscribe to?

[–] cashews_best_nut@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Do you think everyone should agree with you always?

No of course not but I subscribe to the original Reddiquette philosophy. Downvotes arne't for disagreement. They were originally a form of user-moderation to stop spam. Unfortunately about a decade ago after the Digg exodus the users of Reddit forgot that original usage and so you'd end up being downvoted and not knowing why. It doesn't foster debate or discussion. It's a cheap way to snipe someone down without being responsible or engaging them.

I never, ever downvote unless it's obvious link spam. If I feel strongly enough I tell the person they're wrong and why. That's what I believe in.

I am curious, what current of socialism do you subscribe to?

Libertarian Socialism. In the UK the closest parties/groups would be Black Rose Labour and/or Jeremy Corbyn's Labour. The countries closest to my beliefs are Denmark, Iceland and Norway.

However, the people on Lemmy.ml took further offence when I suggested DPRK wasn't a democratic country and they trotted out a list of articles on how democratic it really was. Then I was given a bunch of Stalin emojis of him pulling heart shapes with his hands.

I'm not a fan of autocratic dictatorships and I was dog-piled and taunted with a bunch of Stalinist and DPRK memes. Because apparently you're not truly left-wing unless you worship Stalin and Kim.

I would have been happy to debate these points with them but unfortunately my reticence of autocratic dictatorships was considered far worse than what was directed at me in response.

[–] doidera 2 points 10 months ago

No of course not but I subscribe to the original Reddiquette philosophy. Downvotes arne’t for disagreement. They were originally a form of user-moderation to stop spam. Unfortunately about a decade ago after the Digg exodus the users of Reddit forgot that original usage and so you’d end up being downvoted and not knowing why. It doesn’t foster debate or discussion. It’s a cheap way to snipe someone down without being responsible or engaging them.

I never, ever downvote unless it’s obvious link spam. If I feel strongly enough I tell the person they’re wrong and why. That’s what I believe in.

That's actually very nice, I agree with you. TIL.

[–] Blaze@discuss.online 1 points 10 months ago

No of course not but I subscribe to the original Reddiquette philosophy. Downvotes arne’t for disagreement. They were originally a form of user-moderation to stop spam. Unfortunately about a decade ago after the Digg exodus the users of Reddit forgot that original usage and so you’d end up being downvoted and not knowing why. It doesn’t foster debate or discussion. It’s a cheap way to snipe someone down without being responsible or engaging them.

Very true, and that's why I'm more and more inclined to use an instance without downvotes. With the report button available, downvotes just seem like a shortcut for hivemind.

[–] EchoCT@lemmy.ml -1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

A: Nordic systems like that are by definition not a form of economic socialism.

B: Gonna make an assumption that you using Tankie was likely referencing some authoritarian policy and just grouping them all under 'tankie' as a generic insult like most .world liberals. Leninists or other ML flavors are not tankies.

I don't necessarily agree with down voting just for the inaccuracies of A. The boring 'tankie' this and 'tankie' that from the libs is getting REAL old though. They can't even borrow an insult correctly. I have no issues with memes and banning people for that as those people clearly have no intention of serious conversation.

It's exhausting to the point that you were likely dismissed the moment that happened. I know it's bad for spreading ideas and I don't really like it. That said, explaining the real definition and real points of debate for the 100th time when really only every 10th person had an honest desire to learn/share is trying to say the least.

As an authoritarian leaning Leninists I will gladly tell you why Anarchism and Libertarian Socialism inevitably fail though if you want.

[–] doidera -2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Libertarian Socialism. In the UK the closest parties/groups would be Black Rose Labour and/or Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour. The countries closest to my beliefs are Denmark, Iceland and Norway.

I see, Anarchism. I like it, mainly Kropotkin. Although I disagree with some points IRL mainly of my daily comrades are anarchists. I am what you would call a tankie even though I despise tankies.

However, the people on Lemmy.ml took further offence when I suggested DPRK wasn’t a democratic country and they trotted out a list of articles on how democratic it really was. Then I was given a bunch of Stalin emojis of him pulling heart shapes with his hands.

I understand, and I think this shouldn't happen. A Marxist should be open to honest debate. On my view DPKR is way more democratic than say USA. I don't like this apologetic view of Stalin too. But I don't subscribe to Imperialistic propaganda neither. I think somewhat I am priveleged living outside the axis North America x West Europe, those places have suffered with A LOT of propaganda, and it is hard to see it from inside.

I’m not a fan of autocratic dictatorships and I was dog-piled and taunted with a bunch of Stalinist and DPRK memes. Because apparently you’re not truly left-wing unless you worship Stalin and Kim.

DPKR isn't a dictatorship though. Kim alone holds less power in his country than Biden for instance. Also he was elected. DPKR have some sort of direct democracy that most western world doesn't even dream about.

I would have been happy to debate these points with them but unfortunately my reticence of autocratic dictatorships was considered far worse than what was directed at me in response.

These people really gives socialism a bad name after all. I agree with you.

[–] SRo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

DPKR isn't a dictatorship though. Kim alone holds less power in his country than Biden for instance. Also he was elected. DPKR have some sort of direct democracy that most western world doesn't even dream about.

lol people like you really exist

[–] doidera 3 points 10 months ago

@cashews_best_nut@lemmy.world see? there are idiots from all sides.

That's why some people tend to become reactive and aloof.

[–] Urist@lemmy.ml 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

DPKR isn't a dictatorship though. Kim alone holds less power in his country than Biden for instance. Also he was elected. DPKR have some sort of direct democracy that most western world doesn't even dream about.

So I want to start off with recognizing that western media love to blow up American propaganda about how "batshit crazy" Kim Jong-un is. In reality I think development of nukes is to some degree quite sensible as a defensive measurement for DPRK, especially given their stated goal to develop socialism without external involvement.

Formally DPRK looks quite democratic with power derived from the working people's assembly. However, I do not see how formalism really matters if it does not conform with praxis. Having officials elected for life from the same bloodline is to me a big red flag in this regard. The same with things like the assembly only being actually assembled for a few days of the year and statisics regarding voter participation and such.

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