21
IDF safely rescues 2 hostages from Rafah in special nighttime operation
(www.timesofisrael.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 12 Feb 2024
21 points (58.1% liked)
World News
38563 readers
2643 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
You seem not to be able to discuss without being rude, it seems.
It is not a “stupid start date” is the start date that Israel became Israel and stole the land from the Palestinian people.
Since you are not able to discuss with manners, I refuse to explain anything further.
If anyone else wants to pick up the discussing from here with me on a nice manner, I’ll give counter arguments to this persons claim.
To put it more diplomatically, yes, 1948 is a way too late of a starting year if you're seeking to examine the full historical context of the conflict. Jewish immigration into post-Ottoman Palestine started significantly earlier and was explicitly supported by the British during the aftermath of World War I (some limited immigration happened even earlier). It should be noted that Britain's actions here were directly contradictory to promises that they had made to their Arab allies during WWI, when they'd promised the Hashemite family (now the ruling royal family of Jordan, then ruling from Mecca) an Arab state from Mecca to Damascus in exchange for their military assistance against the Ottomans. My general understanding is that most of that immigration was generally legal, in that Jewish immigrants legally purchased land that they moved in to, but a lot of those landowners were Ottomans and their claim to the land can certainly be criticized. At any rate, as the number of Jews increased, tensions quickly emerged, Jews and Arabs rapidly started fighting, both sides commit terrible acts, and the moment the British leave, true war breaks out as all of Israel's neighbors invade, with the Israelis ultimately being successful and roughly establishing the modern borders of the West Bank and Gaza.
I personally would argue that we're long past the point where who started what is a particularly useful question towards finding a path to peace, since both sides have done terrible things and have next to no trust for one another, but if you want to explore the history, you really do need to go back to Ottoman Palestine, the beginnings of Zionism in the late 1800s, and World War I.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine
For some interesting context, I'd point you to the main image of this article, which shows land in British Palestine that was legally owned by Jews. The vast vast majority of Israel's Jewish population still lives in these same areas. Now again, most of this land was purchased from non-Palestinian land owners who had acquired it during the Ottoman era, and you can certainly criticize that as unfair or unjust, but I honestly don't think "steal" accurately describes the situation. You might say that the establishment of the Israeli state was a theft, but I don't see how that's meaningfully different than the establishment of British Mandatory Palestine, or Ottoman Palestine before that. You might say that modern Israel is the result of western imperialism, and I can somewhat understand that argument, but given that it was earlier under the Ottoman Empire, who were certainly not loved by the local Arab population, the difference feels almost more aesthetic than anything else.
For what it's worth, I do fully support an independent Palestine and think Netanyahu is a horror with zero interest in peace, though I also can understand that Israel has legitimate security concerns, though the retaliation in Gaza has absolutely been excessive.
So you really don't know what the Balfour Declaration was, who the Ottomans were, the end of WW1 or any of that?
Fine, whatever. Figure it out yourself.
Just read my last sentence/ paragraph. That’s all I have to say. After this I will not comment to you anymore.
I stand by what I said before.
1948 is a stupid start date for understanding this problem. The Israeli state was promised by the British in 1917, years before the British took over the region of Palestine. Deal with it. Before the founding of Mandatory Palestine of 1920 (which only existed as a piecemeal state the British took over after the Ottoman collapse), Britain already had plans for Israel.
History is a wee bit deeper than you might think it seems. Balfour Declaration is rather significant to the discussion, and your avoidance of the subject is quite telling. The plans for Israeli settlement were laid out nearly three decades before 1948.