this post was submitted on 23 Feb 2024
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Discussion of climate, how it is changing, activism around that, the politics, and the energy systems change we need in order to stabilize things.

As a starting point, the burning of fossil fuels, and to a lesser extent deforestation and release of methane are responsible for the warming in recent decades: Graph of temperature as observed with significant warming, and simulated without added greenhouse gases and other anthropogentic changes, which shows no significant warming

How much each change to the atmosphere has warmed the world: IPCC AR6 Figure 2 - Thee bar charts: first chart: how much each gas has warmed the world.  About 1C of total warming.  Second chart:  about 1.5C of total warming from well-mixed greenhouse gases, offset by 0.4C of cooling from aerosols and negligible influence from changes to solar output, volcanoes, and internal variability.  Third chart: about 1.25C of warming from CO2, 0.5C from methane, and a bunch more in small quantities from other gases.  About 0.5C of cooling with large error bars from SO2.

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The paper the article is about is here and its press release

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[–] jmiller@lemm.ee 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

In addition to Thejevans points, your cost estimate is very high. That cost would be in line for a geothermal heat pump, which is far more efficient. Air to air heat pumps can be installed for more like $3-10k in most residential homes. And on the higher end that is a big house that is probably saving more than $550 a year.

[–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

Can you show me where you're getting those figures? I was basing my estimate on a quick google search of prices, and the estimate provided for air-source heat pumps here. (MassSave is an organization that promotes energy efficient and climate friendly appliance solutions in Massachusetts), which seems to suggest $22,000 is an average cost, which is in line with the other estimates I was finding. ($10-$20k to buy the unit and $15-$30k including installation.)

Edit: To be clear, I'm not trying to be contrary or argumentative; I've been looking into heat pumps as a possible option for us for years and if they've become justifiable from a cost perspective, I'd love to get those details.

[–] jmiller@lemm.ee 4 points 8 months ago

I looked up prices in Massachusetts, they are higher than the national average. Looks like 2 main factors:

1 A higher than usual percentage of mini splits vs central air. These will be more efficient and have a lot of comfort benefits, but are considerably pricier then retrofitting a central air system. So if you are retro fitting CA, you could come in under average.

2 MAs impressive $10k+ incentive system for whole home heat pump systems has resulted in HVAC companies raising prices, because of course it has. This is why we can't have nice things.

[–] sonori@beehaw.org 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I just looked up the energy star list of high efficiency heat pumps, chose the largest model, and googled a few of the prices to get about 7 to 10k. Which is still absurdly high for what they are, but I was looking at the highest efficiency ones so I guess they have fancier compressors or something else that lets them raise the price. I also got an average cost to replace an AC unit of 500 to 2500 dollars.

At the end of the day a air source heat pump is just an air conditioner with a 10 dollar reverseing valve, though they typically use very efficient air conditioners and add an emergency space heater aswell. Well if your being predantic an air conditioner is a heat pump, but generally in climate threads heat pump is shorthand for one that works in reverse for heating as well as cooling.

I really can’t imagine the level of grift you would need to have to get from that to 22k, unless you were using ground source or retrofitting central heating into a building that previously lacked it, though in that case you would probably use several minisplits to replace individual radiators or baseboard heaters.