this post was submitted on 30 Mar 2024
1551 points (97.7% liked)
linuxmemes
21393 readers
1186 users here now
Hint: :q!
Sister communities:
Community rules (click to expand)
1. Follow the site-wide rules
- Instance-wide TOS: https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/
- Lemmy code of conduct: https://join-lemmy.org/docs/code_of_conduct.html
2. Be civil
- Understand the difference between a joke and an insult.
- Do not harrass or attack members of the community for any reason.
- Leave remarks of "peasantry" to the PCMR community. If you dislike an OS/service/application, attack the thing you dislike, not the individuals who use it. Some people may not have a choice.
- Bigotry will not be tolerated.
- These rules are somewhat loosened when the subject is a public figure. Still, do not attack their person or incite harrassment.
3. Post Linux-related content
- Including Unix and BSD.
- Non-Linux content is acceptable as long as it makes a reference to Linux. For example, the poorly made mockery of
sudoin Windows. - No porn. Even if you watch it on a Linux machine.
4. No recent reposts
- Everybody uses Arch btw, can't quit Vim, and wants to interject for a moment. You can stop now.
Please report posts and comments that break these rules!
Important: never execute code or follow advice that you don't understand or can't verify, especially here. The word of the day is credibility. This is a meme community -- even the most helpful comments might just be shitposts that can damage your system. Be aware, be smart, don't fork-bomb your computer.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I don’t need to repeat myself but that’s all I’d be doing.
You’re making the argument that open source software inherently does this better and I’m telling you that you’re wrong. I’m going to cite myself, a 20 year veteran in the field.
It can do it better and often times it does work out this way.
Closed source software also has value and use and for its own set of reasons could make the argument that it is more secure because of access controls and supply chain management and traditional security mechanisms.
I think you read what I wrote as a “no you’re entirely wrong” whereas what I said was “you’re asserting things that aren’t true which is weakening the argument”
Frankly though given the lack of response to what I actually said by anyone I’m just going to rest on knowing in the real world my input is considered valid, here where we’re being fanatics … idk for all you know I’m a bot spewing AI generated drivel.
Maybe the disconnect here is I’m talking about practical application because of experience vs theoretical application because of ideology.
No I don't think you said I was entirely wrong, that part was clear enough.
My issue is more with your argument from authority and personal experience. It is very easy to be biased by personal experience, especially when it brings good money.
So I'll put my personal experience too (which is also a low value argument). From the outside it may seem this is well done in big companies. But the reality is that this is often a big mess and security often depends on some guy, if any, actually having some standards and enforcing them, until they leave because the company doesn't value those tasks. But since it's closed source, nobody knows about it. With open source, there's more chance more people will look at this system and find issues.
I don't doubt some ultra sensitive systems like nuclear weapons have a functional closed source security process because the government understands the risk well enough. But I think there are way more closed source systems, at lower danger level but which still impacts people's security, that are managed with a much lower standard than if they were open-sourced.
I do agree that your words are in fact a low value argument. We’ve found common ground.
Your heart is in the right place but there is nuance you’re clobbering by not being willing to be open minded.
You have provided no valuable argument except "believe my experience", so I am answering with an equally weak one. Provide me some good quality study and I will be happy to change my mind. I recognize this lack of enlightening information is pretty aligned with closed source philosophy.
I think you asking me for “quality study” informs me that I don’t want to talk to you about this anymore.
I understand ideologically you’re all for open source software (so am I, but you can’t see that) and you believe there is no merit to close sourced software. You believe open source software is inherently more secure and nothing will convince you otherwise and to be honest I just don’t care.
In the real world your argument falls flat, the ideology is great but practically it doesn’t shake out that way. If you’re incapable of recognizing the merits AND flaws in both systems then I don’t have any desire to continue talking to myself.
I’ve not at one moment argued against anything other than your narrow view, I am a proponent of open source software and am a contributor to a project I guarantee impacts your life every day. I’m not shitting on open source and never would.
All of the things you say CAN make it better and many times do. That said it doesn’t inherently make it better and just because you crowdsource doesn’t mean you got it right. There is nuance. Democracy always fails on the idea that 1 Million Voices are smarter than 1, which isn’t always the case.
Open Source Software ought to be used EVERYWHERE IT MAKES SENSE and not used where it doesn’t.
The problem is when people make statements that just aren’t true to push for something that can stand on its own without false narratives.
A lot of straw man arguments. Overall, I think we agree on the value of open source.