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Kristi Noem defends killing her own puppy
(www.motherjones.com)
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this post was submitted on 27 Apr 2024
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She killed a puppy for acting like a puppy and scaring birds during a hunt. It was 14 months old and sounds like it had zero training. So she takes it to a gravel pit and shoots it. A puppy. For being excited by birds. And it wasn't trained how to behave around birds.
And then she writes on Twitter that her autobiography has more stories that will upset the press. She is actually psychotic.
Animal cruelty. Why isn't she charged?
Is that even a thing? In the u.s they treat dogs as property
Well they treat people like the property of corporations and the ruling class, so at least they're consistent.
I live in the US. I treat my dogs as family.
Sadly your laws do not. They're property according to law
Do you "crate" them when you are away from home or sleeping? That American practice has always horrified me.
I personally don't, but some dogs love it. It's their safe space.
I've certainly never needed or wanted to crate a dog, my dogs sleep in bed with me every night. Some dogs are destructively anxious when alone and need it unfortunately. I only know one person who does crate their dog (their dog is like I described above), and they hate that they need to. It's not as common as you think in my experience at least.
I'll admit I wasn't aware that was an American-only thing though.
Its actually illegal to do so in Sweden.
I am also in the U.S. and I do treat my dogs as family and I do not crate them. However, the person you are replying to does not treat their dog as family. They think they do, but they don't. They told a story on another thread on this governor about their own dog (which I initially misread) which included this part:
https://lemmy.world/comment/9683664
That doesn't sound like treating them as family to me.
Edit: Forgot the "not" up there. Kind of important.
Apart from anything else, vets will come to your house for stuff like that. I’m going to tell myself that story is bollocks. We don’t deserve dogs.
What the fuck.... Not only is this animal cruelty but it also shows the incredibly fucked up view that person has on what "family" means.
Yes, very much not all Americans are "bad" and it's dumb to generalise like that, but man are they good at proving stereotypes and being completely ignorant of it. Both via the Internet and having known some Americans in real life, most of the time it doesn't take long to discover how shitty they are.
There are definitely some very shitty pet owners around. There's a dog we walk ours by that is out all day on a wire lead whether its family is home or not and it's constantly pulling on it and jumping around because it's clearly full of energy that it can't expend. I doubt it's enough to call the humane society and have them do anything about it unfortunately.
Our two dogs are very well-loved. They sleep on the bed with us, get the food our vet recommends (a brand called Taste of the Wild) and we have a dog door so they can run around their big yard. I've had four dogs in my life and I'd like to think I've treated all of them as well as, if not more than, I could be expected to reasonably do so.
I sure as fuck would never smother one of them any more than I'd smother a relative dying of cancer.
My dogs have always been crate trained. Its not like they are in there all day. They ride in a crate in the car for their safety. They can go lay in it whenever they want. Some do, some don't.
same.
Really? FYI, a dogs crate is where they feel safest when their humans are gone. It's one thing if you crate them 24/7 but otherwise, no, it's not a bad thing. Do some research before you jump into this debate choom, or you're gonna get demolished.
Edit: and, for the record, my dogs both sleep with me. Only crated when me or my partner are both not home
yes, it’s true, tons of books say it’s ok. my folks raised dogs, i’ve had a number of dogs myself. never crated them. until dogs can be interviewed, im team “lets don’t lock them up for hours all alone.” just because humans write books saying this and that doesn’t make it true. dr spock wrote books saying it was bad to hold babies when they cried. it’s not. science used to be near uninamous that animals and insects didn’t have emotions. then it was “emotions like we do.” now…it’s turning out they do. research isn’t the be-all and end-all.
Why would a dog feel safe being locked into a cage compared to being free to roam the house and find a comfy spot?
Literally never heard of anyone doing that here, it would even be illegal.
I would imagine that if you've never heard of anybody doing that where you live, it's a culture thing. Certain places have different practices on how they handle dogs. I want to stress though, much of the US doesn't just do it because it's simple and easy without any regard to the animal (at least not any good dog owners). To you, it may look like a prison, but to a dog properly crate trained, it's more like a safe and comfy bed they can relax in. The positive effects crating can have on a dog is heavily backed by science, and I'd recommend looking into it, it's actually kinda fascinating.
Of course, that all assumes it's being done properly. Crates are a tool, and like any tool, they can be misused and abused. So it's not always where they feel safest, it all depends on how you train them and certain issues a dog might have (claustrophobia, heavy anxiety, etc.). Generally, from what I understand, you never want to associate the crate with negative emotions or consequences (i.e. don't send your dog to the crate as punishment). It's supposed to be a safe place, not a jail cell.
Google it if you're curious. The science is there.
This shows you have a fundamental ignorance of this subject matter. It's not American practice, for starters, and it's certainly not cruel if you're doing it right.
It depends on where you are. There are states and cities in the US that take animal cruelty very seriously.
I think I understand what you're saying here. Legally speaking, dogs are property here.
This said, obviously most Americans do not treat their dogs as such.
Our dogs are our family, choom. Don't mix it up like that, our country is already full of shitty things, but not that. This story is about a piece of human garbage who never should have gotten a puppy to begin with, but that's not ALL of us.
No, don't use your emotions, I simply stated a fact. In the u.s if I kill your dog, I am liable for property damages. That's all the law sees your dogs as, that's all police see your dogs as.
Ok, annnnd...?
Putting down a dog without a good reason isn't animal cruelty most places if you put it down humanely.
This weird and gross and downright disturbing, but it isn't animal cruelty unless she shot it in the stomach to watch it bleed out or something. Which honestly, she may have for all we know, she's obviously unhinged or very, very dumb.
Killing an animal because you don't want it is animal cruelty. Maybe not legally but the laws rarely follow public morality.
If animals are in excess there are shelters and they have better ways than a gunshot in a gravel pit.
I'd still call it cruelty, especially the fact that she claimed she led it to the gravel pit. She called the puppy over and shot it.
it’s still early…
~~Did I miss something? That was a shitty example to back up her angle that the dog was untrainable or whatever. The real "reason" was the puppy killed a bunch of the neighbor's chickens. That is a fact, as in order of events. The motivation could be many other things, such as: not wanting the bad PR, trying to smooth things over with a neighbor, legitimate guilt/empathy/something for the neighbor losing their chickens as some families may be really attached to their chickens either emotionally and/or financially.~~
etc wow I don't mind saying something that is unpopular but I very much do mind people thinking I'm defending animal cruelty or that I find it anything less than awful and heartless. I was questioning specifically what the comment said about killing a puppy FOR being a puppy. When I said the motivation could have been anything else, I meant she could have killed the puppy for any of those awful reasons too but I did not understand how killing chickens = being a puppy, which someone did kindly answer for me. Clearly I expressed myself very poorly.
The puppy was being trained for hunting. Meaning she killed her for doing exactly what she was being trained to do. Of course she wouldn't know there are some animals she shouldn't chase.
Oh, and this is not a one-off thing from Noem either. She also mentions shooting and killing a male goat for "chasing her kids".
In any case, I worry when someone's solution to completely fixable issues with other living beings is to just kill them.
Usually bird dogs aren't killing anything. They retrieve the fowl after its been shot and they are trained to be gentle with the bird in their mouth. But that doesn't excuse the shit stains behavior.
Ok duh, thank you! I wasn't sure what I missed that makes this a puppy being killed for being a puppy so thank you for actually pointing out what I was missing. I couldn't really make the connection to how it was a puppy specific thing, not defending it.
The thing is she wasn't sad to have to do it. She said she "hated" the puppy.
Yeah im really sorry, I was not in any way shape or form anywhere near that woman's side but that was not clear. Thank you for being decent to me despite what your impression may have been.
Just to be clear…. On a bird hunting trip, the dog killed some birds… the wrong birds, but still birds. And that’s a reason to murder it?
Where I'm from, most farmers with chickens would have shot the dog first. If your animal kills someone else's livelihood, they are going to react poorly.
While its fucked to kill your own dog, this is a common reason to put down animals.
Putting down animals for misbehaving is fundamentally fucked and anyone who does it shouldn't be allowed around animals - or as they say where you're from - "While its fucked to kill your own kind, this is a common reason to put down animals."
which also doesn't feel justified..
My old boss’s retriever dog killed a chicken once. He told her ‘no!’ very sternly, and taught her not to do that. She never killed a chicken again.
At least try training the animal first, for fuck’s sake
Also the purpose of a bird hunting dog is not to kill the birds but to help the hunter locate them, flush them out of their hideouts and retrieve them after they've been shot by the hunter.
If you think any of those things is a reason to lead a puppy to a gravel pit and shoot it, I sincerely hope you don't ever have any dogs you are responsible for.
I mean, that's exactly what jeffw said. The dog killed the wrong birds. And got shot for it.
There's better ways to handle that than killing the animal in cold blood. Retrain it. Give it to someone else. Take it to the pound. You know, something other than calling it over to a gravel pit and shooting it in the fucking head.