this post was submitted on 10 Jun 2024
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Tariffs make us all poorer in the long run. Did we learn nothing in the 20th century?
It is impossible to compete when the playing field is not level. If state subsidies, energy production, co2 impact (not bullshit certificates and offsetting) could be equalized, then tariffs wouldn't be so badly needed.
I too would like to have no VAT, import tax etc, and for everyone to get along nicely. The reality is, that we live in a highly competitive world where major powers are fighting for control over critical industries and raw resources.
So let them compete, isn't that the idea? Countries and economies can compete with each other just like companies do. China can subsidize their EVs, America can subsidize its defense industry and corn, Europe can subsidize cheese and wine or whatever it is they make, each country specializes and offers the best product at the cheapest prices for consumers. Or make WTO have more 'stick' and less carrot so we can make countries stop subsidizing their own industries.
Either way, a return to trade tariffs and isolationism doesn't sound great to me. It sounds like everything getting more expensive and less efficient (and therefore, more environmentally wasteful). It also sounds like countries being less dependent on each other, which means less reason to not go to war. We live in a very rare, peaceful time in human history. International trade (and massive technological/scientific breakthroughs) are a major part of that.
@makeasnek, this may be fine if and when all countries apply to the same rules, but this is not the case. China is heavily protecting its market, and they do so much more than the EU or the US. In China, foreign companies can't even run a subsidiary in the country, they need a Chinese parther firm to create a joint venture. Recent Chinese 'security laws' even make simple market research almost impossible as it may be seen as 'espionage' by China, which made many consulting firms close their Chinese offices. And these are just two examples.
There are two factors at play here which have to meet in the middle: where is the most efficient place to produce the product and what is the most efficient way to ship the product? The answer to the first question is: wherever has local access to the resources (people, iron ore, etc) and energy required and has the scale required to efficiently build those products. The more cars your country produces, the bigger your factories are going to be, and the more efficiently you can make cars. The answer to the second is by sea. Always by sea. Boats are vastly more efficient than rail, truck, anything.
from: https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/jzhebc/eli5_why_are_ships_more_efficient_at_transporting/
@makeasnek, it's not only that you are using a lot of words to say nothing, it doesn't address the issue either (because China, among other things, close its own markets, they don't play by the rules they want others to follow, see my other post in this thread).
[Edit typo.]
A bold statement without any economic or political context. It is Tthngs like that which make the foundation of misinformation and disinformation imo, and, in that case, play into the hands of Chinese disinformation campaigns.
And you don't think it will make people poorer to let China do the Amazon thing for everything?
One of the lessons we are learning the hardest way possible is that moving all your industrial base over seas to a country with autocratic tendencies makes you dependent on them, while also removing skill and knoedge from your country resulting in long term risk and damage.
Capital moves easily, supply lines do not. The 0 covid policy showed that this dependence on only china is dangerous for companies. And since companies are generally risk averse they will start spreading across more countries.