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These takes are always so dumb. "It's immigration". Then why do these parties also want to get rid of public access television and radio? Why are they trying to limit investigative journalism? Why are they limiting independent research at universities? Why are the against public welfare systems? Social institutions? Juridicial safety? Democratic protections? It's almost like it is something more...
There's a difference between what the right-wing voters are wanting and what the right-wing politicians are doing. You run into the same problems with left-wing voters and politicians too. Not to say that they're "both the same", just that you can't treat them all as one big hive mind.
There is a difference. But what you are saying is not true, bacause it was tested in Sweden. All parties in parliament, except three parties at like 18% votes in total, said the far-right party have always been correct when it comes to immigration ("always" including when they were an explicit nazi party), and switched to their line. If the voters understood and did not want all that other shit, they should have switched. They did not.
But there is a difference. The people who run the party today, who joined it when it was an explicit nazi party, probably have a certain goal in their mind where they need all these steps. The voters, in general, are just rationalizing why they vote for the steps.
I'm saying that the voters and the politicians they vote for are not one big hive mind. You're saying that they are one big hive mind? And your example is that voters didn't switch their support when their parties changed the positions? I'm not sure you've interpreted what I said correctly.
What are you talking about? I just agreed that there is a difference between voters and politicians, and then I elaborated on one such difference. In the same comment I also tried to highlight that this still means that it is not the "immigration" question they are voting for.
Ah. The problem is that you told me "But what you are saying is not true" and then basically agreed with what I'd said.
You may be right. I should probably have said, "what is implied by your reply in the context of the thread is not true" instead, and then perhaps elaborated on the implication some more.
@mumblerfish @ZK686
Not sure if people voting far-right parties want dictatorships policy. Maybe they want only more order and protection as citizens of that nation, with rights before the immigrants
Sorry, several things here.
"Rights before immigrants", so "just" a higher standing than people of different origins? I'm sure we have a word for this.
And this is what I'm saying. Yes, they do not only want "no immigration". There must be "order" too. There is no "order" if we do not give police the means to achieve it. There is no "order" if you allow scientists to tell you that these are not effective ways to achieve order. There is no "order" if the people trying to achieve the "order" are being critiqued.
Then in many cases it is not about "want". "Want"? What does it matter? "I voted for the totally-not-nazis-anymore-party, because I read their pamphlet and they just wrote good things there. I'm a good guy and thought they were best. Oh, these guys on the telly says that one of the things I thought was a good thing was really fucked up. That makes me feel bad and stupid. But I'm a good guy. Did I do something wrong? The totally-not-a-nazi-anymore-guy says it is not fucked up, but good actually. That makes me feel comfortable. I'll adopt that view instead. I'm a good guy." Lucky us! This guy did not "want" free speech to be forbidden in universities, or which ever.
I don't think the average person gives a toss about any of those things or sees them as adding any value to their lives. They believe that journalists are lying propagandists, universities are elitist and out of touch, welfare serves lazy immigrants and social and democratic systems have failed them. Noone really beleives in society anymore, the right would like to create a new one where they fit in.